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 (Bellagio) use Stelvio Dash?

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Doud
Don Abbondio
Don Abbondio


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PostSubject: (Bellagio) use Stelvio Dash?   Sat Jan 24, 2015 4:31 am

Hi,
I am hoping there might be some experts who could help me. I really would like to use my spare Stelvio dash on my Bellagio, but of course that raises some issues.
Signals missing in Bella wiring:
Dash: Aerial p24, 35; Anti-Theft p29; Hazard Bella p14, Stelvio p 37

ECU: Red: Stepper motor p9, 17, 18, 19; Blue: Ign sensors & Relay p1, 8, 28; Clutch Sensor p33, fall sensor p35.

I was sort of hoping I might be able to use another s/w download instead of the Bella dump, but it now seems there are too many signals missing. In order to get the plot to work, I would need to turn off the immobiliser, & disable the other signals in ECU s/w. Seems like a huge ask, but there would be a few people interested in the dash swap if it could be done.

I looked at all the other wiring diagrams, & it seems the Bellagio is the only 5AM that has no immobiliser fitted.

Has anyone looked at this yet? Anyone heard of the Dashes being downloaded? (I know Guzzi does not do it, although the Axone (or current iteration) has the capabilities of uploading dash s/w updates, it seems not to be used.partly because there has been no modifications to dash s/w I saw somewhere)

One question: is the actual part of the s/w that gets changed when the maps are edited always the same size between models (I know the offsets are different, but is the table the same size? If that were so, it might be possible to work out where some of the fields are located so the functions could be disabled so I could try using a Stelvio (or other) dump with the Bella fuel map grafted in, & all the not-needed functions turned off. (Of course what I want is the Digital speedo, & Analogue Tacho by using the Stelvio dash.)

Has anyone ever tried to dump the Dash s/w using the GuzziDiags? It might be possible to hack the dash as well. I would imagine the s/w was fairly similar between dashes, but possibly has a table similar to the ECU. (These days the s/w programmers do not re-invent the wheel, they turn features on & off in s/w.)

Anyway, over to the experts. What have I got to lose?

regards, Doug
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ghezzi
Fra Cristoforo
Fra Cristoforo


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PostSubject: Re: (Bellagio) use Stelvio Dash?   Sat Jan 24, 2015 1:40 pm

Hey Doug, I want to do this to.
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beetle
GRiSO
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PostSubject: Re: (Bellagio) use Stelvio Dash?   Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:25 pm

I'm not interested in hacking the dash software, but -

Dash: Anti theft is optional and can be ignored. Hazard is just a switch and can be ignored. Aerial might be circumvented.

ECU: fall sensor can be ignored. Clutch switch can likley be circumvented.  Pin 1 on the V connector needs to be switched to pin 17 (key on). Pin 28 needs to be rewired and switched thru the start button. This is normally pin 38 on the Bellagio.


Oh, and just wire in a stepper and hide it somewhere.
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ghezzi
Fra Cristoforo
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PostSubject: Re: (Bellagio) use Stelvio Dash?   Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:36 pm

Hey Beetle, if I was going to wire in a stepper on a Bellagio, would it be smarter to just add the 50mm throttle bodies off an 8V?
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Doud
Don Abbondio
Don Abbondio


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PostSubject: Re: (Bellagio) use Stelvio Dash?   Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:47 pm

Wayne,
we have spoken recently: I am in Lismore.

I have a wrecked Stelvio to part out, so could look at the Stelvio Throttle bodies. The only issue with spragging the sensors is sometimes the s/w expects to see results from a change in inputs, but I guess it is a suck & see. I have a spare 5AM so a trial is not too much problem (but the time to fiddle is!).

Thanks for the feedback Mark. Can you answer the question about the table sizes: are they all the same?

regards, Doug
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: (Bellagio) use Stelvio Dash?   Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:50 pm

@ Wayne: Sure. Why not?

@ Doug: With regard to stepper response, ECU just want to see 'yes I moved' It doesn't actually measure anything else.

All the map and correction tables for the 1 lambda bikes are the same size. However, the Bellagio has different RPM and TPS values that would need to edited at a low level.
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garyclem
Tanabuso
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PostSubject: Re: (Bellagio) use Stelvio Dash?   Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:19 pm

I'm reading this, and smiling almost laughing, and thinking that you guys must be on some very serious take me to gaol shit. I got no idea WTF ...... but, all the same, would like to thankyou from the bottom of my heart for your all your previous, current and future deliberations from which it is entirely possible that I have already or will benefit ........
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ghezzi
Fra Cristoforo
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PostSubject: Re: (Bellagio) use Stelvio Dash?   Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:33 pm

Don't give me any credit, I just day dream and butcher shit.
Doug lives in Lismore, just up the road from Nimbin and Mullumbimby, (that's the herbal capital of Australia for you northeners).

Meanwhile, Beetle's old man was from Mars, and his mum was from Venus, that's why he speaks fluent 1101100011001001 etc
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pauldaytona
Fra Cristoforo
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PostSubject: Re: (Bellagio) use Stelvio Dash?   Sun Jan 25, 2015 2:22 pm

Doug,

The bellagio is a real parts bin bike. I think the starting logic is outside the dash. So don't need immobilizer stuff.

When you take of the dash, does the bike run?

If you put on the stelvio dash does it do anything when you switch on the key?
When looked at the drawings, there is little what wouldn't work. Only thing we can't see, is what signals are on the can bus. If there is no tacho signal, it won't show ever.

If you connect the stelvio dash. connect guzzidiag and look what errors you have.
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beetle
GRiSO
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PostSubject: Re: (Bellagio) use Stelvio Dash?   Sun Jan 25, 2015 3:01 pm

What Paul Said. Stick it on and see what happens. Then look at any errors or service warnings you get.
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Doud
Don Abbondio
Don Abbondio


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PostSubject: Re: (Bellagio) use Stelvio Dash?   Sun Jan 25, 2015 5:27 pm

Mark & Paul: thanks.

I understand the Can signals (not that I can look at them...) I suspect all these functions are enabled/disabled in the config table (unless they drop the routines out, which I doubt.)
That was one reason I asked about the table size: it might be possible to compare 2 tables to see what might need to be changed. (There are people who disable the immobiliser, so it must be in the table. My suspicion is things like the tacho might be there too.)

Anyway, guess nothing to lose by plugging it in.

regards, Doug
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ghezzi
Fra Cristoforo
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PostSubject: Re: (Bellagio) use Stelvio Dash?   Sun Jan 25, 2015 6:57 pm

One dumb question mark, if Doug was to change the dash and throttle bodies with stepper motor,
would it be easier to just transplant the whole wiring loom and ECU from the Stelvio.

As in, are there any other EFI sensors on the 8V that don't exist on our ancient pushrod 2V?

Surely then it would be just copy the Bellagio fuel/ignition map and download it into the Stelvio's 5AM.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: (Bellagio) use Stelvio Dash?   Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:52 am

Actually, try that first. The speedo sensor would need to be rewired, because the Stelvio has two (front & rear), which are wired into the ABS unit. That would be a simple cut and splice at the ABS connector.  All the 'must have' sensors are wired the same.


There's a bunch of shit that would either need to be carefully deleted from the loom, or tastefully hidden. Those Stelvio's have a lot of fancy gizmo's.

In fact, I'd be tempted to flash the Bellagio map first and leave the throttle bodies as they are.
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Doud
Don Abbondio
Don Abbondio


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PostSubject: Re: (Bellagio) use Stelvio Dash?   Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:43 pm

Dash update:
I tried my Stelvio dash today, with no success. The problem seems to be that the dash expects an unlock code (usually 00000 or last 5 digits of Vin), but I could not enter the required no's due to the control switches being slightly different config.
On doing some more research it seems the GRiSO dash could work because the control switches seem to be the same as the Bella.
What I am now wondering is if the dash software can be changed from Stelvio to GRiSO? I think this will require a bit of hacking, which I do not have time for atm, but I think getting to the bottom of Guzzi Dashes would be a worthwhile project for Ron (as in later.ron) These dashes must be re-programmable (otherwise why have a dash CAN connector). The units will be uProcessor controlled, so could probably be hacked using available tools. My thinking is there would be a similar config table to the ECU, so it might be re-configurable.

Have any of the dealer-types used the Guzzi Diagnostic tool to access the dash on any Guzzi?
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Ralf z
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PostSubject: Re: (Bellagio) use Stelvio Dash?   Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:08 pm

Hey Doug,
Just reading your parting out a Stelvio.

The throttle bodies are they available and if they are what condition they in,
Or you can ring me.
Ralf 0410627898
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: (Bellagio) use Stelvio Dash?   Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:08 pm

Doug, if you need a donor GRiSO dash for experimentation I have one. It has a history but I can explain that.

Pete
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