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 GRiSO Cafe Racer

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keenerkeen07
Sfregiato
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO Cafe Racer   Wed Feb 04, 2015 3:15 am

bikesnbones wrote:
Tod. wrote:
All this electrickery mode stuf has come a bit late in life for me. It's not that I'm stupid or am reluctant to embrace it, it's just that I ride a bike for the same reason a dog sticks his head outa the car window. I like it raw, and as mentioned earlier, the throttle goes both ways, with only a nut connecting it to the back wheel. Yes, there are the safety aspects of ABS, traction control etc. and I'm sure I wouldn't be wishing I had it when I've overlooked it and I'm sliding on my arse, I'd be wishing I hadn't gone so fast and hoping I've got clean underwear when they drag me off to A+E. I'm not against new fangled stuff, it's just refineing motorcycling a bit to much for me. As said earlier. I like my bikes a bit raw. That's why I fell in love with the GRiSO. pirat

It's not that I'm against advances in technology.
I just think that the latest fad, POWER MODES, are a gimmick.
Surely a competent rider knows when it's safe to press on, and when it's better to back off.
Perhaps someone could explain why it's necessary.

I cant say I buy into it , but the theory is because of the power available that you can change throttle response as to conditions , and this can also go along with suspension settings as well.... makes for more control with the motorcycle  , as I stated I left it in sport mode which gives the Multi 1200 full on 125hp  the other modes reduce not only HP but Torque Curve and throttle response ...
When they have a demo day I would advise to try one out its worth the experience .. best way to make your own judgement.
Keener
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tocino
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO Cafe Racer   Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:11 am

keenerkeen07 wrote:
I cant say I buy into it , but the theory is because of the power available that you can change throttle response as to conditions , and this can also go along with suspension settings as well.... makes for more control with the motorcycle

This.

Bikes now make a lot of power and that can get inexperienced riders (even experienced ones) in trouble who are not used to it. More so in the wet / dirt / whatever. Plus there's all the suspension settings, etc. that confuse some folks. It's marketed towards people who want an easy way to adjust things for conditions. No one's forcing anyone to use them; as pointed out you can just leave it on sport setting.

It's also a tech arms race - if your competitor is offering it, you better too, in order to keep selling bikes. Especially in the sport-bike arena where buyers want to be able to wring (even if they really can't Smile) every last HP out. These are (supposedly) race-replicas, so if the race bikes have them, then the street version better or else the other brand will get the sale.

My big fear on having a bike with some of this stuff is the cost to repair when it breaks. Hopefully it's all designed to "fail gracefully".
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bikesnbones
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO Cafe Racer   Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:33 am

tocino wrote:
Bikes now make a lot of power and that can get inexperienced riders (even experienced ones) in trouble who are not used to it.".

I wouldn't say bikes now make that much more power than what went before.
There are a few exceptions.
My own VMAX Gen 2, made 197bhp.
It did not have power modes, and neither did I ever feel it was any the worse for it.


tocino wrote:
More so in the wet / dirt / whatever. Plus there's all the suspension settings, etc. that confuse some folks. It's marketed towards people who want an easy way to adjust things for conditions..

This is what I mean.
In the wet, on dirt or whatever, your brain commands the appropriate throttle openings.
I mean come on.
If you're riding nailing the twisties, and the weather turns wet, do you continue in the same way, or do you just apply a bit of common sense, and ease off.
If it's the former, then you need to get some training at a very basic level.


tocino wrote:
It's also a tech arms race - if your competitor is offering it, you better too, in order to keep selling bikes. Especially in the sport-bike arena where buyers want to be able to wring (even if they really can't Smile) every last HP out. These are (supposedly) race-replicas, so if the race bikes have them, then the street version better or else the other brand will get the sale.".

It's not just high performance sports bikes.
Even the new V7's have it, as well as many other more middle of the road bikes, like Ducati middleweights.
I don't think there is any evidence to suggest that this might influence a persons choice of bike.
Would you ditch your GRiSO for something that had power modes,
Only a real plank would dismiss the bike they really wanted because it didn't have the gadgets that another bike had, that was not their first choice.
In the same way, I would not dismiss a bike I liked because it did have power modes, but I would resent it.
If the manufacturers were really concerned about our safety, then they would fit things like rear foglights as standard, as they do with cars, taking into account our visibility issues even at the best of times, but they don't of course, because it's not high tech enough to brag about down the pub with your mates.
Safety my arse.


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Tolle09
Don Abbondio
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO Cafe Racer   Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:43 am

When I was 17 I had an MZ 150, a mates brother said he could build a better looking bike out of orange boxes, did I care, kind of but it was all I could afford, and yes it was a fugly bike
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plantboy
Don Abbondio
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO Cafe Racer   Wed Feb 04, 2015 1:10 pm

Until moving on to my G8 in the middle of last year I had owned an '08 Aprilia SL750  Shiver for a little over 5 years.  A much under-rated bike, the Shiver (designed by Miguel Galluzi) was the first production motorcycle to come with a ride-by-wire throttle and three mode maps (rain/touring/sport).   

In over 40k kms of riding I could never once fault the RBW - absolutely no totally connected with no lag ever.  However, if there was a problem it was always possible to easily adjust any play at the controlling servo.   

As for the tri-mode throttle settings, I first used T mode (full power and torque with a 'normal' response) for about the first 1000kms.   I tried R mode once and decided that I didn't like either the slowish throttle response or reduced max power.  However, once I had spent a very few dollars to smooth the low-end jerky fuelling common to most European bikes of the time, I found that S mode made a big difference to my enjoyment of the Shiver.  In S mode throttle response was like flicking a switch - instantaneous, and I loved it.  For the rest of my ownership of the Shiver I rode in S mode, except when riding long and slightly boring stretches of highway or in extremely heavy rain.

T mode generally gave 5-10% better economy than the more entertaining S mode, and I know that R mode even found a use with newby riders where it enabled them to gain confidence before moving on to T and S.  I have also in the past owned bikes with ABS and don't have a problem with it.

The fact that my GRiSO has neither RBW, a multi mode throttle maps, ABS semi-auto suspension  or traction control is not a big deal for me.  I did enjoy using the technology on my Shiver to maximise its performance envelope and my ability to ride up to a standard that rewarded my modest talent, however, none of this history in any way detracts from the unique enjoyment I feel when riding my GRiSO.
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Steak
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO Cafe Racer   Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:24 am

I tend to fall in the Bikesnbones camp on this stuff.  There is a general dumbing down across the board in the automotive world right now.  These "improvements" do not make for more skilled drivers/riders...

I don't think anything good can come from eliminating the need for "nuanced" riding skills.

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2012 MOTO GUZZI GRiSO 1200SE

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DungeonMaster
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO Cafe Racer   Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:33 am

I am going to get on the "too much power" band wagon. I do NOT want a machine (bike, car, pick up truck..) that has Sooo Much power that it throws me away.
My 1988 FZ600 and my 1999 Laverda 750S were quite enough. Maybe a Wee Bit More for those bikes but they didn't put me in situations that I didn't ask for. Like an R1 could do to me.

DM
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ghezzi
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO Cafe Racer   Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:27 am

DM, you sound like an old fart I know, Me.
I have had opportunity for short rides on litre class sports bikes. Spend most of the time going "fu-fu-fu-fuck" while grabbing at the front brake. Had a 300k ride on one recently in the twisties and quickly adapted to it, but never came anywhere near using all the power in that terrain.

On the open road full power can be intoxicating, the achievable (insane) speeds in a matter of seconds just mean either my license or myself and skippy will expire sooner. So Bella with about half the mojo of the Kawasaki suits my internal RAM & CPU processing speed.

With modern motorcycle technology, how long before they remove the clutch and gear lever, and add auto speed control? Hang on, Piaggio have the Fly 125.

Actually DM, the horsepower that throws you away kinda reminds me of the early 2 strokes, pre reed and exhaust power valves. Maybe I should finish the 485


Last edited by ghezzi on Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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bikesnbones
Tanabuso
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO Cafe Racer   Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:38 am

ghezzi wrote:

With modern motorcycle technology, how long before they remove the clutch and gear lever, and add auto speed control? Hang on, Piaggio have the Fly 125.

The technology already exists to electronically enforce speed limits.
Not that any Government particularly wants to do that, as motoring related fines are a significant soulrce of revenue.
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odder
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO Cafe Racer   Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:40 am

I had one of the 750 ape's as well as ridden other "moded" bikes. I'd rather have 1 good map than 3 okay maps.

There is a fine line between a crutch and safety feature IMHO. The MFG's are competing on gizmo's since most modern 2 wheelers are realiable and often have more power then needed in the real world. In MotoGP/WSBK they've nearly solved the off throttle highside often caused by TC.
It really sucks when sensors or other gizmo's fail while out on a tour.

In the auto world of automatic braking, park assist, etc we are getting closer to self driving vehicles and electric nanny's.




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bikesnbones
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO Cafe Racer   Thu Feb 05, 2015 12:07 pm

odder wrote:

In the auto world of automatic braking, park assist, etc we are getting closer to self driving vehicles and electric nanny's.

Which is why I see the current trend towards simper more basic machines from a different era, a reaction to this stupid techno battle, and I'm all for it.
Weather we are prepared to admit it or not, it's exactly what attracts us to Guzzi's.
There are several bikes in the same category that would whip the GRiSO.
The Triumph Speed Triple, BMW S1000R, Aprillia Tuono, MV Augusta Drag, to name but a few.
So why would we choose a relatively low powered air cooled twin over any of those ?
Answers on a postcard
Very Happy
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tocino
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO Cafe Racer   Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:57 pm

odder wrote:
In MotoGP/WSBK they've nearly solved the off throttle highside often caused by TC.

Until Marquez takes out your rear-wheel sensor! Smile oh wait, that was on-throttle high side. How do you high side off throttle?
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ghezzi
Fra Cristoforo
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO Cafe Racer   Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:05 pm

Get it seriously sideways, sliding and spinning, and then fully close the throttle.
Back tyre suddenly gets full grip when its not pointing in the same direction as the front, FLICK!
Followed by a brief moment of silence before CRUNCH, SCRAPE, BOUNCE, SLIDE, ROLL etc.
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tocino
Nibbio
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO Cafe Racer   Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:12 pm

Ahh. I think of that as on-throttle because it's happened to me getting on the gas coming out of the corner, but you're right - it's when it came around and I reflexively closed the throttle that physics took hold. And I lost mine.
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ghezzi
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO Cafe Racer   Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:23 pm

The Guru's will control the slide with throttle and simultaneously, even a touch of rear brake. And keep the front wheel pointing exactly where you want to go. Me, I wish.
Much easier to master on an XR80.
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odder
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO Cafe Racer   Fri Feb 06, 2015 6:10 am

tocino wrote:
odder wrote:
In MotoGP/WSBK they've nearly solved the off throttle highside often caused by TC.

Until Marquez takes out your rear-wheel sensor! Smile oh wait, that was on-throttle high side. How do you high side off throttle?

The term off-throttle high side came about during the 800s. They were supposed to be safer but weren't given corner speeds. Quick shifters and early traction control gave a squirt of fuel to calm the chassis so when the throttle was closed that little squirt didn't happen and airborne goes the rider. Now all the riders are digital and the tech is better

Have had the cold tire high side and the rainy track day, no traction, air, traction, nuts slammed against tank...no fun lol
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bikesnbones
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO Cafe Racer   Fri Feb 06, 2015 4:55 pm

Here's a cool cafe racer hipster site
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PostSubject: Re: GRiSO Cafe Racer   Today at 3:17 am

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