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 Maps for GRiSO

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Gr8V
Montanarolo
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PostSubject: Maps for GRiSO   Sat Mar 07, 2015 5:49 pm

Thinking of a remap for my 2012 GRiSO and have been reading lots of good things about "beetles" maps. Are these " rexer" or "wrexer" maps (not sure of the spelling). If they aren't the same, is there any difference.
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beetle
GRiSO
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PostSubject: Re: Maps for GRiSO   Sat Mar 07, 2015 6:20 pm

They are not Rexxer maps.

They are completely different. Rexxer maps are built on a dyno with changes to the main fuel map and ignition maps. My maps are built on the road, with real road performance in mind. They have new main fuel, delta and ignition maps, new pressure-air-temp and fuel-engine-temp correction tables. New warm-up tables. Changes to to Torque and throttle correction tables. Even the Fuel-Phase table and Rev-Limits are different.

And mine are cheaper.

But of course, I would toot my own horn wouldn't I? Afterall, I'm an egotistical, pretentious, pontificating wallet raper.

cheers
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tocino
Nibbio
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PostSubject: Re: Maps for GRiSO   Sat Mar 07, 2015 6:35 pm

beetle wrote:
I'm an egotistical, pretentious, pontificating wallet raper.

Always going on about how egotistical, pretentious and pontificating you are!

(Gr8V - don't believe him, he's just being sarcastic about what others have accused him of. I just checked my wallet and it's perfectly fine!)
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Maps for GRiSO   Sat Mar 07, 2015 6:57 pm

Look into my eyes...  Send me all your money...

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Gr8V
Montanarolo
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PostSubject: Re: Maps for GRiSO   Sat Mar 07, 2015 7:40 pm

Eye's,, what eye's??
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Pete Roper
GRiSO
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PostSubject: Re: Maps for GRiSO   Sat Mar 07, 2015 9:23 pm

beetle wrote:
They are not Rexxer maps.

They are completely different. Rexxer maps are built on a dyno with changes to the main fuel map and ignition maps. My maps are built on the road, with real road performance in mind. They have new main fuel, delta and ignition maps, new pressure-air-temp and fuel-engine-temp correction tables. New warm-up tables. Changes to to Torque and throttle correction tables. Even the Fuel-Phase table and Rev-Limits are different.

And mine are cheaper.

But of course, I would toot my own horn wouldn't I? Afterall, I'm an egotistical, pretentious, pontificating wallet raper.

cheers

Have you managed to have a good look at one of the Rexxer offerings yet? I haven't. I was hoping to rip the one out of Gil's bike at Long Flat for a look-see.

Mark's maps are IMO the best option on offer at the moment. While theoretically there are other *Better* ways to change the mapping in reality the nature of such development means that corners are cut and results are frequently less than optimal. The use of 'Add-Ons' like PC's also require chopping into the bike's loom which years of experience has rendered me well shy of. I also found that when my PCV-AT system was fitted it didn't work and technical support was non existant.

The cost is also very attractive. Buy some cables and download the programmes which cost you a donation and get sent a map. How easy is that?

Pete
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ghezzi
Fra Cristoforo
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PostSubject: Re: Maps for GRiSO   Sat Mar 07, 2015 9:49 pm

The bloke in Brisbane flogging Rexxer maps does it from home without a Dyno. Don't know how, why. Just deliver bikes to him occasionally.

5 months ago had bike re-dyno'd after minor changes. Recently took it to a local Guzzi mechanic for throttle balance etc. So he bumps the TPS up (from 3.6 to 4.7) to make it run richer across the rev range. I argued that I have a PC-5 with dual maps and AFR was spot on from idle to redline. He refused to listen and just said, "That shit never works and you need more fuel". Result was visible black smoke, stink and poor economy. Had to take it back to dyno guru to reset PC-5 TP reading.

Fuck I hate all this ECU shit. With carbs I could fuck it and fix it myself.

The Saint is due here any moment with GRiSO, laptop and cables. I will be watching intently, trying to learn ............................ one day I will master the TV remote, then my phone ................ and bike.

Mark, theoretically is it possible to copy my current ECU settings, then also copy my PC-5 (fuel) map and add the two values together to rewrite a map and upload it into my ECU.
PC-5 allows Delta mapping, but do I have this feature in the Stock Bellagio ECU?
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Oz1200Guzzi
Don Abbondio
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PostSubject: Re: Maps for GRiSO   Sat Mar 07, 2015 10:22 pm

You have it all except the TPS reset. Could be wrong but Pete/Mark can also chime in...
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Maps for GRiSO   Sat Mar 07, 2015 10:35 pm

Bellagio uses the W5AM but the throttle bodies are a weird hybrid. I believe, but I'd have to check, that you can adjust the TPS mechanically, (I've never had to.) if I were doing its I'd back probe the TPS rather than relying on a scan tool.

As for the 'Guru's suggestion that "They all need more fuel."? Why is this dreadful old saw still accepted as a given??? If they 'Need more fuel' why do they use more than other virtually identical, earlier engines? It's so obviously a false premise that I cannot for the life of me understand why it ever got any traction in the first place!

Yes, when running closed loop the shitty narrow band O2 sensor will trim the rich map to a state of near incombustible lean-ness, hence the fact that they run like shit on a light throttle at low engine speed but as soon as you open the go handle or wind up the crank speed it goes open loop and the open loop map is almost always as rich as fuck. Last thing you need is to pour more fuel in!

Pete
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Conor W
Grignapoco
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PostSubject: Re: Maps for GRiSO   Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:06 pm

My two bob's worth re: the ease of map loading - As a new player in the ECU fiddling space I did exactly as Pete & Beetle said. Ordered cables about two weeks back. They arrived a week later (from Lonelec in UK per beetle's advice on his how-to guide - apparently there are some problem versions from other sources but these were perfect). Arrived a week later. I downloaded the guzzidiag etc programs one friday night, grovelled to (well actually just asked) beetle and he sent appropriate map for my setup. Despite stories I read about needing a clean laptop I loaded it all onto an old unclean XP desktop beast and then followed beetle's how to instructions to the letter. Quite easy and if you have enough button pushing skills to load a photo onto this forum you will be able to manage the job. An hour after starting - including coffee break as there are some thumb twiddling bits while maps up and download - I was on the bike for a test ride. For me it was an amazing difference. Immediately added 40 k to fuel range, and that's including city commute stuff.   Low rev hunting all sorted. I really don't play continuously up in high rev parts of dial much - for me thats not why i have the GRiSO - so can't really tell you much about that world. If it really doesn't give you what you need you simply reload your old map and go forth on a Plan B!
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Maps for GRiSO   Sat Mar 07, 2015 11:48 pm

Wayne: yes, yes and yes. One caveat is that poxy PCV map uses different breakpoints than the map in the ECU. This means the PCV map trims which are a percentage value of the pulse-widths from the ECU, will need to be converted & interpolated into real numbers for the ECU map which uses microseconds. geek
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Maps for GRiSO   Sun Mar 08, 2015 12:02 am

Pete Roper wrote:

Have you managed to have a good look at one of the Rexxer offerings yet? I haven't. I was hoping to rip the one out of Gil's bike at Long Flat for a look-see.


Not a GRiSO map. I've got Stelvio and 2V Sport Rexxer maps.

A Rexxer map can have very few changes or as many as the dyno guy wants. The Rexxer system pretty much operates the same way as the 'amateur' GuzziDiag/TunerPro system. You edit a map based on dyno readings. It's down to the knowledge and care-factor of the tuner. At the end of the day you could get a stellar Rexxer map from a dyno guy who cares, but that would mean more time and more cost.
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ghezzi
Fra Cristoforo
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PostSubject: Re: Maps for GRiSO   Sun Mar 08, 2015 12:46 am

Well Alan (The Saint) has been and gone. Ago pipe, and down loaded one of 2 maps Beetle sent him.
Its all double Dutch to me, I can see and understand all the pulse widths on the graph, its just reading and understanding the 'puta jargon when I have a keyboard in front of me. Its not that I can't learn, I'm just a slow learner (or don't want to). Certainly a lot more confident I will crossover from the dark side now that Al has shown me how relatively simple it all is, but will not attempt anything on my lonesome.

Well Al is off riding with a new map, we should hear from him later.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Maps for GRiSO   Sun Mar 08, 2015 1:13 am

You're happy with the way Bella goes now, right? I reckon we could keep performance the same and lose all the add-ons if we did what you suggested. It'd mean a few less things to go tits-up. We could also try another way (my way) and re-map her completely.
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ghezzi
Fra Cristoforo
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PostSubject: Re: Maps for GRiSO   Sun Mar 08, 2015 1:47 am

Its obvious I need to learn the modern mechanical means of tuning/servicing .................. with a bloody mouse, not a spanner. (I'm a pussy lover). I did mean a total remap of me stock ECU (and chuck the strap-on dildo in the bin), by adding/subtracting the 2 fuel values to alleviate the need of data logging from scratch.

Now if I could only data log ..................
I used to tie shopping bags to 2 light poles 500m apart and time myself with a stopwatch from a rolling start of 60kph, and noting exit speed and time taken, between jetting changes. Sometimes got busy in the office with a farmer chasing me down the road in his clapped out tilly (ancient SUV).
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Maps for GRiSO   Sun Mar 08, 2015 3:56 am

If you've got an android phone, I could bring a logging kit with me to LF. You can hang onto it until your sorted.
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plantboy
Don Abbondio
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PostSubject: Re: Maps for GRiSO   Sun Mar 08, 2015 3:58 am

Pete & Mark, I think TunePro may have been the technology used to re-write my map.  Can't really know without making contact with the tuner who did the dyno work for the PO, but I'll bring the dyno print-out to the cabal and one or both of you can take her for a spin.

As for further mapping with one of Mark's specials, I'm afraid I'm in much the same boat as Wayne, i.e, I do not feel nearly competent with using the technology to attempt map changing on my own.

I'll have my Android ph with me too, just incase I'm feeling ambitious
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tocino
Nibbio
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PostSubject: Re: Maps for GRiSO   Sun Mar 08, 2015 3:16 pm

beetle wrote:
Look into my eyes...  Send me all your money...

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Holey moely. Fed-Exing my wallet right now!

Is this assistant of yours going to be with you at this Long Flat place? I'll Fed-Ex myself if that's the case. If I bring my LC-2 setup will she help me with my data logger?
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Maps for GRiSO   Sun Mar 08, 2015 11:11 pm

plantboy wrote:
Pete & Mark, I think TunePro may have been the technology used to re-write my map.  Can't really know without making contact with the tuner who did the dyno work for the PO, but I'll bring the dyno print-out to the cabal and one or both of you can take her for a spin.

As for further mapping with one of Mark's specials, I'm afraid I'm in much the same boat as Wayne, i.e, I do not feel nearly competent with using the technology to attempt map changing on my own.

I'll have my Android ph with me too, just incase I'm feeling ambitious

If one of us can simply download the map to have a look at it would be interesting. This doesn't remove the map from your ECU or change anything, it just takes a copy that we can have a look at and see how it compares with other offerings. It's purely academic interest as far as I'm concerned but it will be interesting to see what has been changed and what hasn't.

Pete
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plantboy
Don Abbondio
Don Abbondio


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PostSubject: Re: Maps for GRiSO   Mon Mar 09, 2015 3:38 am

Pete Roper wrote:

If one of us can simply download the map to have a look at it would be interesting. This doesn't remove the map from your ECU or change anything, it just takes a copy that we can have a look at and see how it compares with other offerings. It's purely academic interest as far as I'm concerned but it will be interesting to see what has been changed and what hasn't.

Pete
No problem Pete.
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The Saint
Biondino
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PostSubject: Re: Maps for GRiSO   Mon Mar 09, 2015 1:56 pm

Wayne and I had a bit of a play yesterday morning with the maps Mark kindly sent me. It was fairly educational as I never used this software before. Everything seemed self explanatory and very user friendly. Best of all, I rode away with a better bike. The handbrake, I mean the better half, had her birthday yesterday so I wasn't allowed to go for a proper flogging, but it was enough to appreciate the effort that went into making this map.

The ride down to LF will definitely be more enjoyable, thanks to Mark's ingenuity. When we meet there, all bourbons are on me Mark....so long you don't put coke in it.

Thanks again matey
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Maps for GRiSO   Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:43 pm

Thumbs Up
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waterbottle
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PostSubject: Re: Maps for GRiSO   Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:53 am

Hi to all,
I've just popped the Dbk back in the mistral and remapped with the last map mark sent me for that. She's going great, it's good to be able to squirt it a bit in town without fearing the tax collectors Laughing

A strange thing here though, I have the latest guzzidiag V0.45 , has the TPS reset been removed from the Actors ?

I can only see Fuel pump, Ignition L and R and Stepper (idle control) scratch

Maybe I should have kept a copy of an older version ?
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Oz1200Guzzi
Don Abbondio
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PostSubject: Re: Maps for GRiSO   Sat Mar 14, 2015 1:02 am

There's a pull down arrow to the right, pick what you want to do
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waterbottle
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PostSubject: Re: Maps for GRiSO   Sat Mar 14, 2015 1:41 am

The Pull down arrows are on the measurement displays, what do you have in actors ?
This is where TPS reset used to live, correct ?


OK, I had another look, with eyes open this time Surprised , all sorted now.
Thanks Tony, I think I wasn't rowing with both oars in the water Laughing
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