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 130C oil in 10C ambient

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Olof
Montanarolo
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Join date : 2014-11-17
Age : 51

PostSubject: 130C oil in 10C ambient   Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:40 am

I was bored this weekend, so I got obsessed with oil temperature. This made me believe that I need not worry about my GRiSO's oil temp unless it rains. Which is pretty much what others here have said, so no news really.

I've always liked to have an oil temp dipstick on my air cooled Ducatis. I think they look much nicer than the usually cheap plastic dipsticks and they also provide some useful information. So, when I got my new GRiSO before Christmas I also looked for an oil temp dipstick. My local shop found a "RR", from Louis, [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] part.no. 10034189.

This cost approx. 80 EUR which really is quite expensive. There is an almost identical product out there labelled MotoGadget, for half the price of the RR. I've used both and never notived any difference except cosmetic. However, this time only RR appeared to have a match for the block thread and the depth of the sump, to be able to function as a dipstick. So RR it had to be.

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Having learned that the GRiSO is over-cooled I also made a cover for the oil cooler air inlet. I then went for a relaxed cruise around the local back roads.

To my surprise the gauge showed a full 130C, and that was riding at a measly 60-90 km/h for some 30 minutes, in dry conditions and air temp +10C. Hmmm. A bit high. I removed the cover, rode on and saw the temp drop ten degrees, to 120C. Still high. While I know that the GRiSO is known to run quite hot (I normally see 60-70C on the Ducatis in similar conditions), surely not this hot? I checked the oil again, Motul 7100 10W60, and found the level to be right between the marks.

This made me suspicious of the gauge. So I decided to get som references.

Around the house I found an left over MotoDetail gauge, a pre-historic steak thermometer with a cracked glass, and the wife's digital cooking thermometer, which I used as a reference. Rigged them in water and noted their readings every minute during heating up from +50C to +100C, at a rate of approx +2 degrees/minute, and cooling back to +85, at a rate of approx -0,5 degrees/minute.

(I'd like to say that the decision to stop at +85C was motivated by fancy thermodynamic theory but in reality it was then my patient wife finally claimed back the saucepan and thermometer)

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Result: All of the gauges proved to be reasonably accurate when given time to stabilize, on average devating no more than 3 degrees from each other. However, they differed in terms of lag. The MotoDetail struggled to keep up with heating up and lagged 9-10 degrees behind all the way from +50C to +100C. And that was at a heating rate which probably is slower than during real riding conditions. The RR did better, only lagging 1-2 degrees behind.

Conclusions:
1. I can trust my posh RR oil temp dipstick.
2. I can also trust my cheap MotoDetail dipstick, but have to remember that it thinks slowly = underestimates heating engine.
3. The oil temp in my GRiSO 8V is well above the crucial +100C even in our quite chilly Swedish spring weather. As long as it's dry, as some of you have pointed out. I too am convinced that wet conditions changes that dramatically: A few years back we rode our Ducatis across Denmark, pressing to make the AutoZug train from Hamburg. This was in April and the air temp was around +5C. My oil temp hoovered around 60-65C. It started to rain and the oil temp dropped into the 40s....

So, probably that's that. I can forget about oil temp until it starts raining and then slot in my oil cooler cover if needed.

The only other possiblity would be that my almost zero-mileage engine is running tight and therefore hotter than it will in the future. However, that logic feels a bit 1960s and... surely moderns Guzzi engines are not built that way? Are they?
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ghezzi
Fra Cristoforo
Fra Cristoforo


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Age : 59

PostSubject: Re: 130C oil in 10C ambient   Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:42 pm

Engine will be tight but more importantly, cruising at 60-90kph means your O2 sensor would be controlling procedures in the AFR department. A Beetle map will cure that and you may see another 10-20 degree drop in oil temp in similar conditions.

While rain will have an effect on the oil cooler operation, it also turns your air cooled lump into a water cooled device, all those fins coping a fine spray, just like washing your bike when its hot ........................... not for long.
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Olof
Montanarolo
Montanarolo


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Join date : 2014-11-17
Age : 51

PostSubject: Re: 130C oil in 10C ambient   Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:22 pm

Really? How would a different map lower the oil temp by as much as 10-20 degrees without adding lots of fuel? The fuelling is actually quite ok as is, smooth and linear if you are careful with the throttle.
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Pete Roper
GRiSO
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PostSubject: Re: 130C oil in 10C ambient   Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:53 pm

You have to understand the nature of the narrow band sensor trim. That on its own though may not be the sole cause for heat differentials. What I do know for absolute certainty is that on the bikes I've tested cold ambient temperatures and particularly water spray off the front wheel onto the sump will dramatically lower the oil temperature. If your experience is different? Great? Maybe the problem isn't universal but my research shows it is a significant issue.

With a decent open loop map coupled with the lack of a thermostat in the cooling circuit the 8V is, as a rule, perhaps your bike is the exception that proves it, grossly over-cooled. All I can do is tell you the results of my fairly extensive research on the issue.

Interestingly, on the ride back from Long Flat in the rain yesterday the over-cooling seemed to be more in evidence in slower work than in droning on the freeway but previous experience says that even in the dry thrashing the nuts off it in the cold results in grossly inadequate oil temperatures. Idling along in the cold and wet results in the sort of temperatures you'll find in a tropical fish tank!

Pete
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ghezzi
Fra Cristoforo
Fra Cristoforo


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PostSubject: Re: 130C oil in 10C ambient   Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:21 pm

A previous air cooled 2V Ducati I owned dropped 10C in oil temp by adjusting the O2 sensor manipulator I fitted. In cold weather with the oil cooler taped up, oil temp would show "snow flake" symbol within minutes if it started to rain. In hot weather following a car at 100kph would see the temp climb horribly high, overtake and ride in clean air and down the temp would go.

Never thought about it before having an oil temp gauge, we would flog a Fonda Hore mercilessly rain hail or shine ..........................................

Too much information!
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Olof
Montanarolo
Montanarolo


Posts : 23
Join date : 2014-11-17
Age : 51

PostSubject: Re: 130C oil in 10C ambient   Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:06 am

Seems to me that we're saying more or less the same thing, so I can't see any disagreement here. I am not questioning the view of the GRiSO as overcooled, and the need to keep oil temps above +100C to get rid of moisture.

Another question pops up, however. What would actually be a dangerously high oil sump temperature, given the synthetic 10W60? I find all kinds of general "limits" on the web.
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Oz1200Guzzi
Don Abbondio
Don Abbondio


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PostSubject: Re: 130C oil in 10C ambient   Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:20 am

Olof, I just noticed you are "just down the road" from Vänersborg - well a few hundred kilometres is just down the road for us - my son lives there with his wife. Small world huh?
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Olof
Montanarolo
Montanarolo


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Join date : 2014-11-17
Age : 51

PostSubject: Re: 130C oil in 10C ambient   Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:59 am

Tony, small world indeed - I've got relatives in Vänersborg and pass by every now and then Very Happy
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