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 Can the GRiSO overheat?

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PostSubject: Can the GRiSO overheat?   Wed May 06, 2015 7:51 am

I searched for "Overheating" topics put found none. I did read the "Italian cooking" one but this may be different just checking.I was moving in slow traffic for 30-40 mins yesterday (80 deg F) and when it got really hot the GRiSO didnt like it. Sometimes a hiccup or so like when I experienced the spark plug wires were causing me problems. No errors on the display. Once moving again and the bike cooled down all was well again. I checked the plug leads after looked fine. Will pull the plugs later today once I have more time. Anyone else experience this?
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Can the GRiSO overheat?   Wed May 06, 2015 9:23 am

Especially with closed loop mapping they will tend to run raggedy if they get really hot. You can cook the oil if you sit still for long enough with no air flow over the motor or oil cooler in hot weather. The motor itself is absurdly tough and unlikely to seize or damage itself but the oil can take a beating. One of the reasons to use a top quality full ester synthetic.

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Steak
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PostSubject: Re: Can the GRiSO overheat?   Wed May 06, 2015 10:15 am

This is why we need lane splitting legalized...

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2012 MOTO GUZZI GRiSO 1200SE

2013 MOTO GUZZI STELVIO 1200NTX - Orange Blossom Special
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PostSubject: Re: Can the GRiSO overheat?   Wed May 06, 2015 10:50 am

Thanks for the confirmation Pete I'm going to look in to oil coolers a bit.
As regards lane splitting I'd normally chance it but not last night. All registrations expire in NY State on April 30th its open season here for all bikers. All things motorcycle related are given extra scrutiny by the NYPD. I know of one guy who received a ticket for not wearing conforming eyewear while his helmet visor was lifted. Its a money racket here this time of year.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Can the GRiSO overheat?   Wed May 06, 2015 11:30 am

Generally the 8V motor is grossly overcooled. It doesn't need a bigger cooler, in fact as soon as I can find time to scratch myself I'll be plumbing in a thermostat into mine. It's the lack of air flow that will prevent the engine cooling, a larger cooler won't change that.

Pete
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PostSubject: Re: Can the GRiSO overheat?   Thu May 07, 2015 5:06 am

Yea thats what I thought about the overcooling from other posts that I read here. Anyone put a fan on the oil cooler yet?
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Can the GRiSO overheat?   Thu May 07, 2015 5:32 am

Both the Norge and the Cali 14 have cooling fans.

Pete
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sidrat
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PostSubject: Re: Can the GRiSO overheat?   Thu May 07, 2015 11:54 am

Steak wrote:
This is why we need lane splitting legalized...

wow i didn't know you couldn't split that would drive me around the bend!
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katoosh
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PostSubject: Re: Can the GRiSO overheat?   Thu May 07, 2015 2:05 pm

Only in California. And here, it isn't "legal" it just isn't "illegal."
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Ahdammit
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PostSubject: Re: Can the GRiSO overheat?   Fri May 08, 2015 3:45 am

I've been out several times in 50 C heat here, it's no fun to be honest.
Sweating like a pervert in an orphanage.
The bike does get bloody hot all right but it doesn't seem to hurt anything.
My worst problem was that in direct sunlight the levers were getting too hot to touch.
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bradbusa
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PostSubject: Re: Can the GRiSO overheat?   Sun May 10, 2015 8:20 am

i've thought about this many times.. what about the addition of a small.. 7 or 8" cooling fan on the back of the oil cooler?
most local parts stores sell electric fan kits with thermostat and relay included..
probably could even source a used radiator fan from any selection of popular japanese sport bikes
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PostSubject: Re: Can the GRiSO overheat?   Sun May 10, 2015 10:39 am

Pete Roper wrote:
Both the Norge and the Cali 14 have cooling fans.

Pete
Do you know what temps they are kicking on at?

bradbusa wrote:
i've thought about this many times.. what about the addition of a small.. 7 or 8" cooling fan on the back of the oil cooler?
most local parts stores sell electric fan kits with thermostat and relay included..
probably could even source a used radiator fan from any selection of popular japanese sport bikes
Is there room back there for one I must take a look? The Norge and Cali coolers are different from the GRiSO
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bradbusa
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PostSubject: Re: Can the GRiSO overheat?   Mon May 11, 2015 5:41 pm

ok maybe 7 to 8" was a bit optimistic.. maybe a 4" fan could work. either on the front of the cooler as a pusher or on the exit side as a puller. the oil cooler housing would have to be modified to get a fan on the inside

probably not worth the trouble. use good oil, change it often
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Oz1200Guzzi
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PostSubject: Re: Can the GRiSO overheat?   Mon May 11, 2015 6:40 pm

Brad, if you go down the path of assisted cooling - always put it on the cool inlet side - the hot stuff will kill the fan's bearings real quick.
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ghezzi
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PostSubject: Re: Can the GRiSO overheat?   Mon May 11, 2015 7:48 pm

Plenty nerdy 'puta people here, why not fit a brushless 'puta fan. They are small, compact, cheap and the serious off road guys use them. Mud, dirt, water, crashing etc doesn't stop them. Mate with a DRZ400 put a 2.5w fan on each radiator backside (outlet), they have enough pull to suck your hand to the grill.

The jet air blast is worth about another 50HP jocolor
Careful on the GRiSO, side blast might push you over.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Can the GRiSO overheat?   Mon May 11, 2015 11:11 pm

GRiSO does not need extra cooling. It is already overcooled. End.
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PostSubject: Re: Can the GRiSO overheat?   Tue May 12, 2015 5:14 am

beetle wrote:
GRiSO does not need extra cooling. It is already overcooled. End.
Why does it act weird when it gets really hot then?
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Can the GRiSO overheat?   Tue May 12, 2015 5:25 am

Because the hotter it gets the leaner it runs, especially if you stick with the closed loop system. It's a sort of self fulfilling prophesy.

Having said that any non *water* cooled motor without fan forced cooling will, if asked to idle indefinitely, get very, very hot. A GRiSO will cook it's oil if left long enough but surprisingly even if it chokes itself to a standstill the internal damage seems to be minimal! Believe me, I've seen two 8V's that have been cooked by idiocy and they took cimparatively little to get them serviceable again. Man the oil was trashed though and this was the best shit you can get!

Quite simply, try and keep moving. If you can't them just stop and wait for the bike to cool and the traffic to clear.

As Mark says in general use the problem with a well tuned 8V is not cooling but gross over-cooling. Hence the attempt to insert a thermostat into the cooling circuit. Looks like I'll be mounting it inside the cooler housing and I'll have to cut away some of the shroud/air guide to fit it. I honestly don't think it will have an undue effect on cooling even in really hot weather.

Pete
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Can the GRiSO overheat?   Tue May 12, 2015 5:37 am

You'll get spitzenfarten running when the engine gets really hot because the airbox heats up and the air temp sensor is located there. It's usually around 5 degrees warmer in the airbox even when you are at speed, but idling in traffic it may get up to 20 degrees warmer, so the ECU leans out the fuel more than is actually necessary.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Can the GRiSO overheat?   Tue May 12, 2015 5:38 am

..and Pete beats me to it again.. Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Can the GRiSO overheat?   Tue May 12, 2015 6:03 am

Well in my situation I was in very slow moving traffic for 30mins on the Queenborough bridge with no option to pull over. There no way to guarantee that I wont be stuck there again in the future or any other bridge or tunnel that leads to the city. If turning on a fan at the cooler would help I'd like to have one.
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LBC Tenni
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PostSubject: Re: Can the GRiSO overheat?   Tue May 12, 2015 11:17 am

On a related note, how hot is too hot when you are idling to adjust the CO trim? In other words, what is the temperature at which I need to shut it down and let it cool off before I continue?
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Can the GRiSO overheat?   Tue May 12, 2015 2:30 pm

At a WAG I'd suggest anything over about 110*C you're going to start getting issues with CO trim due to heat.

On the stuck with n traffic thing? Well the GRiSO is a lousy commuter. As I've said before if you have the space it makes much more sense to buy a small bike or scooter for commuting duties. The initial purchase cost and running costs will to a very large part be offset by the savings on tyres, servicing and maintenance etc. on the 'Big' bike, in this case a GRiSO.

If I had to commute in the city, (And didn't already have my Mana, the best commuter bike ever!) I'd be getting a 150/250cc scooter. Most of the 150's will do perfectly adequately everywhere but on the freeway. A 250 will handle that OK. If you have a real downer on scooters just buy a three or four year old 250cc motorbike, (Or a Mana. They're cheap as chips in the US!) and keep the GRiSO for hooliganism at the weekends!

Pete
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Can the GRiSO overheat?   Tue May 12, 2015 3:02 pm

SPEIRMOOR wrote:
. There no way to guarantee that I wont be stuck there again in the future or any other bridge or tunnel that leads to the city.

In that case you probably have no choice but to add a fan.
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bradbusa
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PostSubject: Re: Can the GRiSO overheat?   Thu May 28, 2015 4:54 pm

Oz1200Guzzi wrote:
Brad, if you go down the path of assisted cooling - always put it on the cool inlet side - the hot stuff will kill the fan's bearings real quick.

not that i doubt the validity of your statement - but what about the cooling fans on  pretty much every water cooled japanese inline 4 cylinder sport bike?
they are all on the back side of the radiator.. are these a different kind of fan?

i thought i would update this with my findings.. i took a few measurements and what i came up with was a 4.5"x 9" opening over the back side of the oil cooler, where the current guard is. this is the available space where one could mount a fan. started poking around and discovered that 4.5" is roughly 120mm and there are NUMEROUS 120mm fans available. mostly for computer use.

so my thoughts were to take 2 120mm fans side by side, and then get some sort of way to mount it to where the current oil cooler cover is. of course this would be wired up with a relay and a temp switch so that it only kicks on after 120c or something like that..
but here's what i found...

this fan is 1" thick, and runs at around 4k rpm full blast. it can move 175cfm. and there's enough room for two of them side by side. perfect.
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oh ya, it's also waterproof. they are made to exceed ip55 standard


the fan is sold with a resistor to be able to work with up to 15v. they also sell it without the resistor, but it can only take up to 13.8v. so i suppose you'd have to make your own resistor or something. our charging systems run at over 14v. perfect.

then i started looking at ways to mount it. oddly enough, the space between the screw holes on the fan are the same height as the oil cooler cover. so they would each screw to one side of the cooler. but then you'd have to secure them to each other in the middle..
the brackets on the right side of this photo are designed to secure two fans side by side.. this could work. these can be purchased on ebay
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i also thought it would be cool to have like a register or a grill to go over them instead so they're not completely exposed. to my surprise, these things are all over the internet!
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ok this one is actually on a pc, but i like these style finger guards. i think they stick with the theme of the bike
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so these are my ideas.. wanted to put this out there and see what everyone thinks. has anyone done it? know of a better way to do it?
i've gotten stuck in traffic 3 times now and i dont wanna get caught without a fan again. i live in southwest florida and it has been in the 90's for the last few weeks. it's only getting hotter from here! i use my bike to commute to and from work. i love it, i just want to make it better and i think this is a nice improvement if installed correctly with a temperature switch.
my exhaust is turning white near the engine from running so hot!
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PostSubject: Re: Can the GRiSO overheat?   Today at 5:51 pm

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