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 Installed Beetles map....problems

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marko118
Montanarolo
Montanarolo


Posts : 13
Join date : 2015-02-09

PostSubject: Installed Beetles map....problems   Sun May 24, 2015 4:41 am

Hello fellow GRiSO lovers,

I finally got the opportunity to load the map that Beetle kindly shared for my 2014 completely stock GRiSO, just 2200 kms on the clock. Followed instruchtion, reset TPS and autolearning, tweaked CO trim to -20 as it seemed to idle fine there, but wasn't sure what I was going for with this, I was presuming that lower was leaner, and leaner might be better as its been guzzling fuel ( about 130kms per tank). So it started and idled fine, but very serious lack of power between 2000-1500 rpm. so went back and reset CO trim to 0 - if anything it was worse.So I just put back in the stock map, and its back running fine. Now I have not checked that the bike is correctly tuned, It recently had its first service,but I didn't specifically request Throttle body balance, or valves etc. So it may not have been done. I am presuming that this is a tuning issue that is being ironed out by the stock map, but I'm new to all this, so I'm wondering if anyone could suggest where to look first. I have ordered a carbtune , so I can give the balancing a go, and I dont think I'd be too scared to try the valve adjustments, should I be doing anything else, or is this obviously one thing or the other?

many Thanks in advance,

Mark
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Pete Roper
GRiSO
GRiSO


Posts : 3783
Join date : 2013-05-29
Age : 59

PostSubject: Re: Installed Beetles map....problems   Sun May 24, 2015 4:55 am

If you don't know if the bike is tuned correctly there is no way we can assist.

As we keep saying everything HAS to be right, more so with an open loop map. If it's using a tank of fuel every 130kms there is something SERIOUSLY wrong!

Have a look at the throttle stop screws, have they been messed with? What was the TPS reading prior to it being re-set after mapping? Has the throttle linkage rod been messed with? Is the paint on the lock-nuts disturbed?

Sorry but this has all the hallmarks of a bike that has been messed with by a shaved ape. Not you, but whoever did the service and didn't have a bloody clue what they were doing. You could be in deep shit here.

Pete
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beetle
GRiSO
GRiSO


Posts : 3977
Join date : 2013-09-30

PostSubject: Re: Installed Beetles map....problems   Sun May 24, 2015 5:04 am

130km? Seriously? Even on my worse Power Commander days I could get 160km.

Check the valves are 6 & 8 thou (which should have been done at the first service, if not, your dealer is a moron and you should look elsewhere). Throttle body balance should also have been done. As Pete says, if someone has messed with the linkage or throttle stop, it will need to be sorted.


Also, did you reset the autolearning parameters?
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Pete Roper
GRiSO
GRiSO


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Age : 59

PostSubject: Re: Installed Beetles map....problems   Sun May 24, 2015 5:37 am

Look, I think I'm going to have to do a 'Don't try and change your map until you are sure all these things are right' write up/thread. Hopefully Steve can sticky it.

I can't emphasise enough how VITAL it is that you know not only that you've been told that something has been done correctly but that you CONFIRM it befor you try and change anything.

I realise that there are a lot of folks on this board who are very savvy and make stuff look easy and if anything one of 'Writer's downfalls is that it makes map swapping super easy. The problem lies with the fact that for a new map, or even the factory maps, to work correctly the engine's physical TUNE has to be spot on.

I know that at the moment, or at least until recently, there wasn't a Guzzi dealer or agent in either the Republic of Ireland or the Six Counties. Now while there are no doubt a lot of good mechanics in the country if they aren't familiar with the foibles of the W5AM controller and how the machine needs to be tuned the opportunity to fuck things up badly is immense!

I'm on holiday at the moment and can't post pics easily but I will endeavour to list the immediate things that will red flag a bike as unsuitable for re-mapping in the next day or so. This will also be a 'Hit List' that will help people realise if their bike has been 'Serviced' by 'Piltdown Man' or one of his close relatives........ Grrrrrrr!

Pete
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marko118
Montanarolo
Montanarolo


Posts : 13
Join date : 2015-02-09

PostSubject: Re: Installed Beetles map....problems   Sun May 24, 2015 5:48 am

Thank you Pete and Mark, I'll admit, that I was using the new map to sort of find out if the bike was tuned correctly, its certainly pointed out clearly that it isn't, so now I know that it needs attention. Having always ridden chain driven 4 cylinder bikes up to this point, Its difficult to know what to expect from a shaft driven twin, , and I have been overall reasonably happy with the performance. The throttle linkage doesn't seem to have been upset, I suspect the 1st service was very minimal, changed fluids etc. I'll contact him and see if he adjusted the valves,
TPS read 5.0  before reset. I'll wait till the carbtune arrives and get dug in.

Cheers,
Mark
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Pete Roper
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Age : 59

PostSubject: Re: Installed Beetles map....problems   Sun May 24, 2015 6:05 am

TPS setting is a red flag. Regardless of how sloppy everything else has been done the TPS has always been right on all of the new bikes I've had through.

Right now I would.

Check the valves, 0.15 inlet, 0.2 mm exhaust.

Check the air bleeds. At most only ONE should be open but this is no guarantee that they are balanced correctly.

The TB's HAVE to be balanced correctly AFTER the valves have been set. Then, and only then, should the TPS and self learning parameters be re-set.

If the throttle stop screw/s have been messed with or the linkage rod disturbed? It's not something that will be easy to fix without a DETAILED knowledge of EXACTLY what was one, how and in what order.

The GRiSO and other W5AM bikes are super easy to tune. The problem is they are super easy to fuck-up as well.

Pete
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marko118
Montanarolo
Montanarolo


Posts : 13
Join date : 2015-02-09

PostSubject: Re: Installed Beetles map....problems   Sun May 24, 2015 7:21 am

Thanks Pete, I'll wait for the proper tools to arrive and go through the checklist, Appreciate your time,

Cheers,

Mark

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Guzzi Cat
Grignapoco
Grignapoco


Posts : 178
Join date : 2014-09-02

PostSubject: Re: Installed Beetles map....problems   Sun May 24, 2015 8:32 am

Mark, If you are in trouble and need some help I am more than willing to give you a dig out. I can check the valve clearances and have the Carbtune to balance the throttle bodies and Guzzidiag to reset the TPS. I am not a mechanic but an enthusiast and like to look after my own GRiSO, I suppose living in Ireland you need to be  Very Happy I live down the road in Thomastown if you want to call down, I wont be around next weekend as we are heading to Wales on the bikes. cheers Knock on wood my bike has behaved great over the two years that I've owned it and I also stuck one of Beetles maps in it at Christmas and that was a further improvement.

Actually I am now on the search for an orange Stelvio to keep the GRiSO company bounce

Let me know if I can help!
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marko118
Montanarolo
Montanarolo


Posts : 13
Join date : 2015-02-09

PostSubject: Re: Installed Beetles map....problems   Sun May 24, 2015 8:46 am

Wow Guzzi Cat, what an offer, Thanks so much, I will definitely take you up on it, My Grandparents lived in Inistioge, so I know my way around (vaguely ). It would be good to see another GRiSO in the flesh too. I'll drop you a PM, and we might find a time that suits ( I've 3 kids under 8!!), No particular rush, as the bike is running fine, just thirsty.
Thanks a Million,

Mark
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Pete Roper
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GRiSO


Posts : 3783
Join date : 2013-05-29
Age : 59

PostSubject: Re: Installed Beetles map....problems   Sun May 24, 2015 11:20 am

That's a great offer. Jump on it.

Believe me though, if it's using that much fuel it is NOT running fine! Overfuelling to that degree WILL destroy the engine.

Pete
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marko118
Montanarolo
Montanarolo


Posts : 13
Join date : 2015-02-09

PostSubject: Re: Installed Beetles map....problems   Sun May 24, 2015 11:32 am

Thanks Pete, I've Jumped, I'm just amazed at the helpful response from the Ghetto, Thanks everyone.

Mark
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Pete Roper
GRiSO
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Posts : 3783
Join date : 2013-05-29
Age : 59

PostSubject: Re: Installed Beetles map....problems   Sun May 24, 2015 11:53 am

In many, many places, regardless of where you live in the world, owning a Guzzi is, unfortunately, an excercise in self-sufficiency. I make a modest living working on them but an awful lot of my work comes from comparatively long distances away, (Think a three hour ride and overnight stay and three hour ride back again as commonplace. I have customers who have flown me to Far North Queensland to set-up and sort out their bikes!) this isn't me trying to big-note myself, simply pointing out that knowledge about issues specific to the brand can be fairly thin on the ground and even some of the dealers and mechanics who work on them either don't have the knowledge or interest to try and do the job right.

It's one of the areas where the Internet can really help in the sharing of knowledge BUT it is also important to be critical about what advice is offered and where. Generally though if someone try's to hard sell you a 'Miracle sollution' to any issue the chances are you're going to end up being sold a pup. Nice thing about the Ghetto is that nobody is actually trying to 'Sell' you anything! Very Happy

Pete
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Omnis
Grignapoco
Grignapoco


Posts : 112
Join date : 2014-10-06

PostSubject: Re: Installed Beetles map....problems   Sun May 24, 2015 4:36 pm

Mark,
I can attest what's been said above. I also have a totally stock 2012 Tenni and before I have installed Beetle's map I had the bike totally tuned by my trusty Guzzi dealer in Toronto with specific instructions to check the valve clearances, TB balance etc. Now with the Beetle map, CO at 10, me GRiSO is pure joy and awesome. Fuel consumption went from 220kms/tank to some 250/260 depending on how I trash it.
Fear not, it'll be good after a proper tune-up
Luca
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PostSubject: Re: Installed Beetles map....problems   Today at 4:45 am

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