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 I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.

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bobbyfromnc
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PostSubject: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.   Wed Jul 01, 2015 7:02 am

I was happy to read on WG that the 2015 Virgina MG rally was a success. I wanted to attend, but I wanted to ride up on my own bike, not the loaner I have had for 3 plus weeks now. While it was nice of the dealership to give me a loaner... ( this is the 3rd time my bike has been at the dealership for the same problem ) I have only ridden the loaner twice. I believe in the Guzzi brand, but if I can't have it serviced properly whats the point of having it. I am fed up. They have had that bike about as much as I have now since I purchased it in March. I am fed up. I called Guzzi USA 3 weeks ago and left a message, then again a day or two later... NOTHING. I finally reached Guzzi USA on 6/30/2015. I calmly expressed my disappointment in them for not making an effort to contact me. Gave them my VIN # and the dealerships #. What the point in having a bike that the dealership can't seem to fix. FRUSTRATED isn't really the best descriptive at this point.



Thanks for all input... To help bring all up to speed, here are some previous comments I have made in other threads on another forum (WG) concerning this situation...

posted on 28 April 2015;

I have been encountering one issue right after another since I purchased my Norge in March 2015. I am certainly trying to remain optimistic.
1. Ran out of gas, problem underneath fuel tank... Parts ordered, mean while I refilled every 150 miles, went on a trip to Atlanta Ga and back, ran great no issues other than incorrect fuel level showing on gauge.

2. Upon returning from Atlanta I did a thorough cleaning and noticed oil on right cylinder near fuel intake, mean while parts to fix fuel gauge readings came in and I informed them of oil leaking on right cylinder, appointment set, for last Friday and they would look at that as well. It is a 200 mile round trip for me to dealership and back... really no big deal to me.

Went to the appointment, fuel gauge problem fixed, seems that during first service a gasket was compromised by dealership. Necessary parts will have to be ordered, they will call me to schedule this repair, fine no problem... Stuff happens.

Rode the bike back home, ran great, fuel gauge working accurately. Stopped at my normal gas stop to refuel. This is an older real service station so its not uncommon to smell gas there, so I thought nothing much of it. Put the bike up.

3. We had rain for two straight days here in NC on 25, 26 April 2015. Monday beautiful weather, I decide to ride so I go to where a buddy and myself share a space to keep our bikes. I smell gas before I get to the roll up door. Once inside I am greeted by a pond of gas. on floor underneath the bike. Stuff happens, not really mad but darn this is frustrating. Trying real hard to be optimistic, if this had happened 30 years ago I would be exploding over this. I'm trying really hard not to go there.

Posted on 2 June 2015;

First thing let me say up front I knew of the scarcity of Guzzi dealers when I purchased my Norge. I've read to much Guzzi good than the flipside... Guzzi bad. I have been more than accommodating and patient with my dealer...

I purchased a new 2012 Norge demo with 1500 miles on it in March of this year. I ran out of gas because of a faulty part in the tank that sends info to the gauge on the dash. Warranty covered it. Dealer called when part came in. Not once but twice trying to do original repair problems arose due to what I will call a lack of attention to detail. On first repair attempt I rode a hundred miles home only to find a pond of gas under the bike two days later. Dealer picked the bike up. The bike never leaked for them over about 10 days. So after that attempt I went and picked up the bike got halfway home got off the highway and poof a cloud on blue smoke briefly rolled out from the bottom of the bike. Looked under the bike and noticed a hose almost melted into on top of the exhaust Compensator this just didn't look right to me. Also the clear overflow hose with stopper was nowhere to be seen. A "week" later they picked up the bike (thats a whole other story) and another 10 days pass and the bike is delivered. The bike runs really good and attention to details was very good this time. I believe in the Guzzi brand, but Guzzi USA has got to stay on top of its dealer network. Its crap like this that can help sink the brand's reputation. The dealer made it good but my 100 % faith in them is not there right now. Hopefully this will not be how it is in the future but an isolated event. I want a good trusting Dealer / Customer relationship with them because frankly the next closest dealers are a few hundred miles away. I've done my part by being nice and they made it right, we'll see what the future holds, but I truly do believe in the Guzzi brand.

Hopefully I have explained my frustration. BK


Last edited by bobbyfromnc on Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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CPB
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PostSubject: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.   Wed Jul 01, 2015 8:14 am

If you're not happy with the situation, go ahead and change it. Try a GRiSO or some other marque.

It's just a bike, get one that makes you happy.
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pauldaytona
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PostSubject: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.   Wed Jul 01, 2015 8:19 am

I wonder what the reason of this post is. You don't tell what was wrong 3 times. What do you want, we should tell how bad it is? We can't solve a bad dealer.
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bobbyfromnc
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PostSubject: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.   Wed Jul 01, 2015 8:57 am

pauldaytona wrote:
I wonder what the reason of this post is. You don't tell what was wrong 3 times. What do you want, we should tell how bad it is? We can't solve a bad dealer.

Sorry you are correct... I have in past mentioned my on going frustrations with my dealers inability to solve leaking oil on right cylinder. Was told parts were ordered last week and that parts should be there that day or next... (over a week ago now) Now I've been told by MG USA that they do not have needed parts and will have to come from Italy. The parts needed is some breather thing on cylinders. Mind you this is the 3rd time over the same issue since march of this year. Dealership has had the bike about as much as I have at this point. BK
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pauldaytona
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PostSubject: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.   Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:07 am

Curious what part that is can't think about what is different on the 8v as on my stelvio. Or is it where at the back of the heads the vent lines are connected? Never haerd of a problem there, both sides?
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bobbyfromnc
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PostSubject: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.   Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:17 am

Something to do with vent/breather connection on both heads. right side mainly but left is leaking as well.
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jeremyb
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PostSubject: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.   Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:02 am

Bobby,
I really think you need to get more involved in these ongoing issues. I get your frustration, and you might not want to get too technical, but motivation is everything.
My favorite boating motto is: "The best bilge pump in the world is a scared man with a bucket"...

Why don't you find out EXACTLY what the "professionals" think the problem is, and the part numbers involved. Then post that here (and on other Guzzi boards) together with the symptoms ??
Then evaluate all the advice you receive (and hopefully Roper-san will chuck-in his advice - and if Pete doesn't have a clue, you'll really be stuffed).

After all, its just engineering of a big air pump. Its gotta be fixable....
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NorthernProducer
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PostSubject: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.   Thu Jul 02, 2015 5:26 am

If the dealer is really that bad, then I suspect you will continue to be disappointed. It sounds like you have already reached the "end of your rope" and may not want to start trouble shooting the problem yourself. So, have you considered using your state's Lemon Law to extricate yourself from this mess?
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wardentm
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PostSubject: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.   Thu Jul 02, 2015 5:39 am

I would't think a couple of oil leaks would constitute a 'lemon'.
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NorthernProducer
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PostSubject: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.   Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:12 am

wardentm wrote:
I would't think a couple of oil leaks would constitute a 'lemon'.

It's not that oil leaks constitute a "lemon", it is how long the bike is out of service and at the dealer for the repairs. Every state that has a lemon law may have different criteria to file a claim, but they all have the same basic presumption...if the dealer has the bike (or car or truck) more than you and can't fix it, then the owner has a right to file a claim.  

Years ago when living in Ohio, I had an occasion to file a claim for a car that spent more time in at the dealer's service department than I had it...all while under warranty.  There was a constantly growing list of problems with the car that the dealer would fix and then another problem would develop and back to the dealer.  In Ohio, it didn't matter if the problem was a single issue or not.  I gave up and filed a claim.  The car company took the lemon back (which they could not sell again without a disclosure that appeared on the title) and gave me a new replacement car of the same model.  That car was just fine.  

The Op needs to be honest with himself about his role in this matter and whether or not he has any confidence in the bike and dealer at this point.  Sometimes you just have to "fold" and move on the next "hand".  Just my opinion and others might attack the problem differently.
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bobbyfromnc
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PostSubject: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.   Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:25 am

NorthernProducer wrote:
wardentm wrote:
I would't think a couple of oil leaks would constitute a 'lemon'.

It's not that oil leaks constitute a "lemon", it is how long the bike is out of service and at the dealer for the repairs. Every state that has a lemon law may have different criteria to file a claim, but they all have the same basic presumption...if the dealer has the bike (or car or truck) more than you and can't fix it, then the owner has a right to file a claim.  

Years ago when living in Ohio, I had an occasion to file a claim for a car that spent more time in at the dealer's service department than I had it...all while under warranty.  There was a constantly growing list of problems with the car that the dealer would fix and then another problem would develop and back to the dealer.  In Ohio, it didn't matter if the problem was a single issue or not.  I gave up and filed a claim.  The car company took the lemon back (which they could not sell again without a disclosure that appeared on the title) and gave me a new replacement car of the same model.  That car was just fine.  

The Op needs to be honest with himself about his role in this matter and whether or not he has any confidence in the bike and dealer at this point.  Sometimes you just have to "fold" and move on the next "hand".  Just my opinion and others might attack the problem differently.

Thank you for your input. What bothers me the most is that I really like the bike. BK
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NorthernProducer
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PostSubject: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.   Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:45 am

bobbyfromnc wrote:
NorthernProducer wrote:
wardentm wrote:
I would't think a couple of oil leaks would constitute a 'lemon'.

It's not that oil leaks constitute a "lemon", it is how long the bike is out of service and at the dealer for the repairs. Every state that has a lemon law may have different criteria to file a claim, but they all have the same basic presumption...if the dealer has the bike (or car or truck) more than you and can't fix it, then the owner has a right to file a claim.  

Years ago when living in Ohio, I had an occasion to file a claim for a car that spent more time in at the dealer's service department than I had it...all while under warranty.  There was a constantly growing list of problems with the car that the dealer would fix and then another problem would develop and back to the dealer.  In Ohio, it didn't matter if the problem was a single issue or not.  I gave up and filed a claim.  The car company took the lemon back (which they could not sell again without a disclosure that appeared on the title) and gave me a new replacement car of the same model.  That car was just fine.  

The Op needs to be honest with himself about his role in this matter and whether or not he has any confidence in the bike and dealer at this point.  Sometimes you just have to "fold" and move on the next "hand".  Just my opinion and others might attack the problem differently.

Thank you for your input. What bothers me the most is that I really like the bike. BK

I know how you feel, Bobby. I really liked the car I gave back under the Ohio Lemon Law. I liked the replacement car even better. Maybe you can negotiate a similar deal on your bike? I know it not a current year bike, but that might not make any difference to a manufacturer and dealer once faced with a Lemon Law Claim. Have you checked out your state's Lemon Laws to see if you qualify?
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bobbyfromnc
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PostSubject: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.   Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:56 am

Not as of yet legally but have been offered advice from WG member.
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1151
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PostSubject: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.   Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:18 am

Hey Bobby,

For what's it's worth, I feel yer pain! Went thru something similar last year with a number of mishaps and was having a tough time getting the bike back on the road. Had oil leaks, tappet upgrade to roller type and delay after delay. The dealer, who I trust and like was finally able to get the issues resolved but the season was effectively over. Had an accident on June 4th. Got the bike back mid-july...Oil pressure sensor went kaput (leak) shortly thereafter. Got bike bake in Aug...Tappets went kaput within a few rides and got bike back say mid-October. Much of the delay was due to parts not being available asap and in diagnosing a whinning type noise after the first set of roller cams were installed. My dealer ordered another set to install...more time.

Anyway, I was pretty irritated and never had any luck with Piaggo returning my emails. Afaiac, Piaggio might as well not accept queries from their bike owners online, it's a farce as far as I can tell.

I hope the dealer can get you back on the road soon but fwiw, I thought I'd chime in as I can relate....I think a few others here can too....Rolling Eyes

Oh, am finding it amusing (irritating to) that despite the bike working great this year with no further oil leaks or engine rattle, I'm so short on cash due to other niggling damn expenses I still have yet to get seasonal insur. and am taking it out on day passes still. WTF!!!!!! Now I understand why so many cultures believe in a trickster type god....eeerrrrrrrr Sad
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.   Thu Jul 02, 2015 9:33 pm

Mate, as I said on I simply cannot understand why this issue is so hard to address? Even if it is a loose spigot on the breather plates, (Which I honestly consider unlikely!) it could be wogged up temporarily with epoxy until replacements arrive. In fact I suspect that the problem is the o-rings that seal the breather plates, I've had these weep on a couple of bikes and a quick smear of threebond 1211 has cured it. Even on a Norge with the bodywork to remove its a fifteen minute fix. I have to say that if it is that, or the other alternative of leaky hoses or clamps, the inability of the 'Technician' to fix it is almost impossibly feeble!

Unless the heads are porous, (One I could believe but both of them? Nah!) it's a simple oil leak. God's teeth how hard can it be?

Pete
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nicktulloh
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PostSubject: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.   Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:27 pm

Lemon Laws don't apply to bikes in any state I know of.
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NorthernProducer
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PostSubject: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.   Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:54 pm

nicktulloh wrote:
Lemon Laws don't apply to bikes in any state I know of.

The lemon laws in the Op's state specifically include motorcycles.

Direct quote from the state's Department of Justice:

Lemon Law
The North Carolina Lemon Law, also known as the New Motor Vehicles Warranties Act (N.C.G.S. 20-351), applies to new passenger cars, pick-up trucks, motorcycles and most vans bought in North Carolina. It requires manufacturers to repair defects that affect the use, value, or safety of a new motor vehicle within the first 24 months or 24,000 miles (whichever comes first).
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nicktulloh
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PostSubject: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.   Fri Jul 03, 2015 3:03 pm

That's great, and also, AFAIK, very unusual.
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bobbyfromnc
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PostSubject: Re: I've had it. Seriously considering throwing in the towel.   Mon Jul 06, 2015 9:11 pm

Pete Roper wrote:
Mate, as I said on I simply cannot understand why this issue is so hard to address? Even if it is a loose spigot on the breather plates, (Which I honestly consider unlikely!) it could be wogged up temporarily with epoxy until replacements arrive. In fact I suspect that the problem is the o-rings that seal the breather plates, I've had these weep on a couple of bikes and a quick smear of threebond 1211 has cured it. Even on a Norge with the bodywork to remove its a fifteen minute fix. I have to say that if it is that, or the other alternative of leaky hoses or clamps, the inability of the 'Technician' to fix it is almost impossibly feeble!

Unless the heads are porous, (One I could believe but both of them? Nah!) it's a simple oil leak. God's teeth how hard can it be?

Pete

Pete, Thanks for your insight. I will remember this in future. BK

As of today 7 July 2015 they have had the bike a month this time. In my mind this should have been Guzzi 101. But this could be the first time they have run across this situation. This is the 3rd time in shop for same reason. I have the ability to learn most stuff in time. But it is a new bike and they should have the ability to fix such things. I have been more than patient. To their credit when they came for the bike they left me a 2006 Bereva with 25,000 miles on it. Runs like a top! no leaks etc... Go figure. BK
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