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 California 1400 mhh revisited

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jexmatex
Carlotto
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PostSubject: California 1400 mhh revisited   Tue Aug 18, 2015 11:11 am

Okay its not a GRiSO but i feel i had to share it with you


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imagine the same thing with the 8v GRiSO engine...
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: California 1400 mhh revisited   Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:03 pm

This chunk of shit has been discussed at length elsewhere. It uses the old twin plate clutch that is marginal when asked to handle the torque of a V11 Sport, the five speed gearbox designed to take 55hp and a floating version of the old Tonti bevel box that has teeth about 2/3rds the surface area of the Cali 14 in a casting also designed to take 55HP. The whole lot is thrown into a 40 year old frame designed to take 55hp with primitive, non rising rate, twin shocked suspension at the rear.

The engine will tear the other componentry to ribbons if used in anger! Unless of course the use of carburetors renders it a gutless slug! You can de-tune anything if you try hard enough.

If you want a 1970's motorbike for fucks sakes buy a 1970's motorbike. Don't buy a modern motorbike engine, combine it with a bunch of obsolete parts, make it look like an abandoned shopping trolley of derivative, hipster inspired styling cues and expect anybody who actually thinks about the reality of whether such a turd will work to take you even remotely seriously.

Pete
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jexmatex
Carlotto
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PostSubject: Re: California 1400 mhh revisited   Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:24 pm

well i agree on the agregation of old part non fited to support the torke, the weight, gear box etc that for sure.
it's more about the idea of using this engine in a totally opposite direction it was made for, in a total kustom/caferacer way.
it's more about "making is own bike" than the will to buy a 70's bike.

i love my GRiSO and love it the way it is, i also own a V11 2000, short frame and in spite of it's lack of a lot of thing and it's fulness of more things, i love it too.



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Tolle09
Don Abbondio
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PostSubject: Re: California 1400 mhh revisited   Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:31 pm

That's that put to bed then Basketball
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: California 1400 mhh revisited   Tue Aug 18, 2015 4:13 pm

What is it with some Guzzi owners that they doggedly stick to the notion that a 'real' Guzzi is a Tonti framed, twin shocked, & carbureted bike that looks like it was made in the 70's?

Oh, and +1 what Pete said.

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ghezzi
Fra Cristoforo
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PostSubject: Re: California 1400 mhh revisited   Tue Aug 18, 2015 4:36 pm

I like 45LP's, sounds like a few broken records here too.  [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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Oz1200Guzzi
Don Abbondio
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PostSubject: Re: California 1400 mhh revisited   Tue Aug 18, 2015 4:46 pm

cracked record, cracked record, cracked record.

I would imagine the carburettors are actually exhaust pipes - albeit small. The direction of the engine has been reversed, so the the exhaust pipes are actually the intake tract. Now, what were they thinking - Oh sorry, I forgot, they weren't...

Sorry, I've just had another injection and am returning to normal now. As it says in the song, I am now comfortably numb, though a little sick.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: California 1400 mhh revisited   Tue Aug 18, 2015 4:57 pm

Wayne, the reason I rail against things like this is not because I have a pathological dislike of Cafe Racers although I do find the genre terribly derivative and hackneyed nowadays. The reason I rail against them is because they are poor and inadequate engineering in the main part and, quite simply, they won't work very well.

I still own two Tontis. I rode the platform for almost thirty years. I still think it is one of the best and most astonishingly versatile motorbike designs ever built. I've modified them, hotted them up and raced them. I love them, especially the 'Short Head' frame models. BUT! Like everything, it has its limits. I wouldn't expect, nor would I think it sensible, to try to deliver 200hp through a GRiSO clutch, gearbox and driveline. It wouldn't handle it. It would tie the frame in knots and, even supposing you could use the power, it would be an unmanageable pig. I would be equally scornful of any such project as I currently am of these bogus 'Cafe Racers' built around an old Tonti platform.

They are made more as 'Art' than as a practical machine and that's fine, but be honest about it. The problem is that those most impressed by such nonsense also demand stupid and unfeasible power claims because that is all part of the lie.

Sorry, I refuse to be impressed or coo excitedly when presented by this silliness. If others like it? Fine! But my opinion is just as valid as anybody else's and I'm not going to resile from them simply because it is contrary to the current rather fantastic orthodoxy.

Pete
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Daves-i-Know
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PostSubject: Re: California 1400 mhh revisited   Tue Aug 18, 2015 5:58 pm

95 Moto Guzzi 1100 Sport – Moto Studio


Posted on February 24th, by Andrew in Racer. 12 Comments


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OK, Pete, please tell me this bike is a piece of crap so that I can stop drooling over it!

I know, I know, its all derivative poseur affectation, but its more like 'bike porn' to me.

Its fun to look, and I don't get that unsightly discharge that the other porn sights seem to produce.... Embarassed
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ghezzi
Fra Cristoforo
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PostSubject: Re: California 1400 mhh revisited   Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:15 pm

First, apologies to Tolle09 for not letting sleeping dogs lie.
Now Pete, I hope you did see the emoticon I used[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] (shit hitting the fan).

Ok, I'll admit I'm stuck in the past ................... prefer music from the 50's & 60's, the true "Cafe" bikes of that same era and my first Guzzi, a MKIII Le Mans have probably influenced me more than I care to realize.

I too hate the hipsters & their variant of the cafe racer who are just wanker wan-a-be's, "look at me, look at me". But I hate even more the Millepercento monstrosities that are created to compete with OCC (Orange County Choppers), with a Harley you start with a boat anchor and anything you do can't make it worse. But taking a beautifully balanced pleasurable riding machine like a Guzzi and turning it into a piece of shit is blaspheme in my book. I agree Pete, some of their engineering leaves a lot to be desired, but what do I know, I suffer with HOIGOF (Highly Opinionated Intolerant Grumpy Old Fart) and I'm just an uneducated high school drop out.

My personal fetish is for smaller/lighter, line up a MKIII, my Bellagio and your GRiSO and there seems to be a progression in size and bulk and probably weight, having said that, I think Nigella Lawson is HOT! mmmmm, maybe a little more comfort and a little less speed could be good for the soul.

Hopefully by the time I'm dead I will learn to accept others as just being different, but until then youz'rall fucking wankers. jocolor
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Oz1200Guzzi
Don Abbondio
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PostSubject: Re: California 1400 mhh revisited   Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:29 pm

Wayne, you coming down fro the "Fringe" festival of bikes? We need to compare notes around a fire with alcohol.
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ghezzi
Fra Cristoforo
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PostSubject: Re: California 1400 mhh revisited   Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:54 pm

I'm yet to reconstruct a new rear guard to replace my original custom unit that now resides in the bushes out Somerset Dam way. Been slack ............................
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: California 1400 mhh revisited   Tue Aug 18, 2015 7:22 pm

Daves-i-Know wrote:
95 Moto Guzzi 1100 Sport – Moto Studio


Posted on February 24th, by Andrew in Racer. 12 Comments


[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

OK, Pete, please tell me this bike is a piece of crap so that I can stop drooling over it!

I know, I know, its all derivative poseur affectation, but its more like 'bike porn' to me.

Its fun to look, and I don't get that unsightly discharge that the other porn sights seem to produce.... Embarassed

Apart from the stupidity of using carburetors there is nothing wrong with that if you like it cosmetically. It's an 80-ish HP push rod motor in a v11 chassis which is exactly what it was designed to be. The spineys tend to get a bit willowy at high speed due to frame flex but they were designed to take the output of the motor and use the straight cut six speed, four shaft gearbox utilised in motorbikes of this period.

Would I want this bike? No, but I'm not a huge fan of spineys, doesn't mean they are bad bikes just that they don't float my boat like a Tonti or a CARC bike. The thing is the basic platform is built to take what the engine can deliver. A short head Tonti with the five speed and twin plate clutch etc. CAN'T take what even a stock Cali 14 will punch out.

Pete

Edit. On closer inspection it's still the old five speed and yes it is a Sport 'C' rather than a V11 based bike. Interestingly the Sport 'C' used a straight cut gearbox, (Albeit an unfortunately fragile one.) the less aggressive Sport 'I' reverted to the helical box. There were several other interesting changes to the later five speeds too. That though doesn't devalue my previous observations about 'Fit for Purpose' though.

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odder
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PostSubject: Re: California 1400 mhh revisited   Tue Aug 18, 2015 11:41 pm

I once rallied against the hipsters and removing parts and functionality for fashion.pirat
Many do look nice, but only if they work IMHO. I'd prefer stock vintage over two grinders.cyclops
Guess I'm losing the ability to care lol.

So we've had FI in bikes reliably for over a decade so I'll take a nice carbon air box over carbs.
Skeptical about all the new nannies though..

I bought the GRiSO for what it is, not what it could be or what the spec sheets say.
Improve the fueling, suspension, and add comfort items.
Don't need 4 bearded dudes to remove the tail section like the BM utube...looks fine as it is. affraid
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: California 1400 mhh revisited   Wed Aug 19, 2015 12:16 am

Aside from the exhaust that is designed to snufflecate you, the lack of air filters on the loathsome carburettors is a nice touch. With valves you can stick your fist through, and bores your head will fit in, you could suck sparrows straight into the cylinder. You could also make a dollar on the side crushing rocks into pea gravel.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: California 1400 mhh revisited   Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:37 am

If you want to see 'Special' and 'Dedication' and good engineering? Look no further.

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Paul's six speed Daytona still makes a little bit of wee come out every time I look at it Very Happy

Pete
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Lenz9753
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PostSubject: Re: California 1400 mhh revisited   Wed Aug 19, 2015 4:19 am

Pete Roper wrote:
Wayne, the reason I rail against things like this is not because I have a pathological dislike of Cafe Racers although I do find the genre terribly derivative and hackneyed nowadays. The reason I rail against them is because they are poor and inadequate engineering in the main part and, quite simply, they won't work very well.

I still own two Tontis. I rode the platform for almost thirty years. I still think it is one of the best and most astonishingly versatile motorbike designs ever built. I've modified them, hotted them up and raced them. I love them, especially the 'Short Head' frame models. BUT! Like everything, it has its limits. I wouldn't expect, nor would I think it sensible, to try to deliver 200hp through a GRiSO clutch, gearbox and driveline. It wouldn't handle it. It would tie the frame in knots and, even supposing you could use the power, it would be an unmanageable pig. I would be equally scornful of any such project as I currently am of these bogus 'Cafe Racers' built around an old Tonti platform.

They are made more as 'Art' than as a practical machine and that's fine, but be honest about it. The problem is that those most impressed by such nonsense also demand stupid and unfeasible power claims because that is all part of the lie.

Sorry, I refuse to be impressed or coo excitedly when presented by this silliness. If others like it? Fine! But my opinion is just as valid as anybody else's and I'm not going to resile from them simply because it is contrary to the current rather fantastic orthodoxy.

Pete

Great rant Pete Smile
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: California 1400 mhh revisited   Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:11 am

I long ago turned ranting into an elevated art form! Very Happy

Pete
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ghezzi
Fra Cristoforo
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PostSubject: Re: California 1400 mhh revisited   Wed Aug 19, 2015 7:20 am

Oh, I should have mentioned earlier, the "broken record" slur was aimed equally at the other side who continually enlighten us with their crapola.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: California 1400 mhh revisited   Wed Aug 19, 2015 7:28 am

Wayne, it's all good. Robust discussion is far healthier than a bunch of mindless automata all marching off lockstep into the prism of unquestioning ignorance.

Pete
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tocino
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PostSubject: Re: California 1400 mhh revisited   Wed Aug 19, 2015 8:56 am

Pete Roper wrote:
If you want to see 'Special' and 'Dedication' and good engineering? Look no further.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Paul's six speed Daytona still makes a little bit of wee come out every time I look at it Very Happy

Pete


It'd look better if you took the front fender off.

(just kidding!)
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jexmatex
Carlotto
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PostSubject: Re: California 1400 mhh revisited   Wed Aug 19, 2015 9:01 am

tocino wrote:
Pete Roper wrote:
If you want to see 'Special' and 'Dedication' and good engineering? Look no further.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Paul's six speed Daytona still makes a little bit of wee come out every time I look at it Very Happy

Pete


It'd look better if you took the front fender off.

(just kidding!)

and with carburetors !!
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ScottMellor
Carlotto
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PostSubject: Re: California 1400 mhh revisited   Wed Aug 19, 2015 10:27 am

Robust discussion is far healthier than a bunch of mindless automata all marching off lockstep into the prism of unquestioning ignorance. wrote:

Holy erudition batman!
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