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 Rollerless Riding?

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Bill Hagan
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PostSubject: Rollerless Riding?   Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:47 am


Retirement is killing me. My calendar is so crowded with obligations — mostly of the familial sort; the wages of having a 95-YO mom 600 miles away and 10 grandbabies scattered over the map — that I have to make an appointment to go to the latrine!  Shocked

Seriously, tho the above is more accurate than I care to admit, I am (and in large part because of said crammed calendar) wondering about what damage I might do by riding my GRiSO 800 miles from Cross Junction, Virginia, to Woodstock, Illinois, where I will have it “rollerized.”

I have had several aborted attempts to trailer it out, and the weather will soon prevent riding it out there … but not quite yet.

FWIW, I have a 2010 8v.  12K miles.  Runs great.  I changed the oil and checked the valves in July, then put about 200 miles on it (and those new mighty fine MPR4 tires) before I got skeered about doing irreversible damage and put it up on a pit stand to await the change-out.  I also avoided coming to this forum because it would make me want to ride the wicked machine.

So, while I suppose the answer to such a question is filled with too many “it depends” to be helpful, I’ll try anyway. Moreover, I did look around here for the answer, so if I missed it, forgive me and just point me to the right thread.

Still trying to get a trailer run in November, but, failing that, is riding it a “don’t worry about it” or “FGS, ship it” sort of thing?

Thanks.

Bill

P.S.  When you are away for awhile, it takes a pot of coffee to get through the “posts since your last visit.”  Should have waited for the evening.  Kathi’s queen out of town, and I could have had beer. Wink
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little750
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PostSubject: Re: Rollerless Riding?   Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:02 am

If the tappets were Ok meaning not opened up when checked a long run where it gets up to temp should do no harm. Mine has done 23k miles and still running great although I am going to rolleriz it this winter. At the moment I would jump on it and not think twice about 800 miles it’s the short runs that do more damage.
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LBC Tenni
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PostSubject: Re: Rollerless Riding?   Fri Oct 16, 2015 9:48 am

I'm still riding my 2011 with flat tappets, and I'll continue to do so until it shows enough wear that Piaggio will pay for the roller kit. Enjoy the ride and watch for the warning signals. Pete spelled out what those are in an earlier post. If my memory is correct they are mostly idle related, excessive chuffing and other noises/roughness. Maybe Pete will happen along and remind us exactly what to watch for.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Rollerless Riding?   Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:29 am

Bill, unless the valve clearances had opened up A LOT, like by several thou, requiring big adjustments to them whereas previous inspections had required little or no adjustment I'd hop on it in a heartbeat and flog the piss out of it all the way there! Apart from anything else it will give you an interesting opportunity to make a direct comparison between the roller set up and it's flat tappet predecessor.

Unless you have noticed a dimunition in performance, an increase in the discolouration of your oil or an increasingly strong burnt odour to it when you check it you most likely have nothing to worry about at this point.

Get on and ride like the wind! And I don't mean 'Imagine you are a plate of Haricott beans'!

Pete
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LBC Tenni
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PostSubject: Re: Rollerless Riding?   Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:04 pm

I'm torn about rollerising mine on my own dime. I love the GRiSO and want to do right by it first and foremost, but it irritates me that Piaggio continued to use the flat tappets after they knew it was a flawed setup. On principal, I want them to pay for the roller kit. It might be worth the money just to have peace of mind, but I want to make them accountable. Call me a stubborn bastard.
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pauldaytona
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PostSubject: Re: Rollerless Riding?   Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:13 pm

Just do it Bill.
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PostSubject: Re: Rollerless Riding?   Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:12 pm

Ride.            Ride.            Ride!.
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1151
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PostSubject: Re: Rollerless Riding?   Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:46 pm

LBC Tenni wrote:
I want to make them accountable. Call me a stubborn bastard.

Stubborn Bastard!!! Thumbs Up

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Laker
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PostSubject: Re: Rollerless Riding?   Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:11 pm

As one who is not mechanically inclined and who just pokes his nose into the forum from time to time, I sometimes wonder if my GRiSO is going to be okay or is a matter of time before the whole thing starts to fall apart? It's a 2012 with the dreaded flat tappets, the pretzel was replaced with an Agostini crossover, the best mileage I've gotten with my Rexxer map is 33mpg on a recent trip to the Ozarks.

The tappets, the pretzel, does the oil get hot enough to burn the condensation out in the colder months, the possible over-fueling without a proper map (according to Rexxer the map is made to go with the stock exhaust)...is this thing a ticking time bomb or is it possible that the damn thing could run just fine for another 30K miles?
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Omnis
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PostSubject: Re: Rollerless Riding?   Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:23 pm

2012 Tenni flat tappets, factory standard except Beetle-San map: 30k+ Kms. Change oil every 8/9k, checked valves regularly no changes to gap, runs like a dream, loves being flogged. In August completed 8k Kms tour no issues. I keep a close watch and enjoy the beast. If warning flags present themselves my trusty MG dealer promised he'll step in.
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ghezzi
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PostSubject: Re: Rollerless Riding?   Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:29 pm

If you cant bring Mohammed to the mountain, bring the mountain to Mohammed.
Fly in a mechanic, a coupla bottles of red should sweeten the deal.
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PostSubject: Re: Rollerless Riding?   Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:46 pm

Laker wrote:
As one who is not mechanically inclined and who just pokes his nose into the forum from time to time, I sometimes wonder if my GRiSO is going to be okay or is a matter of time before the whole thing starts to fall apart?  It's a 2012 with the dreaded flat tappets, the pretzel was replaced with an Agostini crossover, the best mileage I've gotten with my Rexxer map is 33mpg on a recent trip to the Ozarks.

The tappets, the pretzel, does the oil get hot enough to burn the condensation out in the colder months, the possible over-fueling without a proper map (according to Rexxer the map is made to go with the stock exhaust)...is this thing a ticking time bomb or is it possible that the damn thing could run just fine for another 30K miles?

The honest answer is nobody knows for sure. My own belief based on my experience and extensive research is that it is highly likely that failure of the DLC on the tappets is more or less inevitable but how long they will last and when the failure will occur is governed by numerous factors and combinations of same.

Like Don what really pisses me off is that the company seemingly persisted in selling a product with a known flaw that they had already designed a fix for but didn't have the means to produce and that they are now fighting tooth and claw to deny as many claims as possible on the flimsiest of excuses! What it really comes down to is 'Nobody Knows'?
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keenerkeen07
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PostSubject: Re: Rollerless Riding?   Fri Oct 16, 2015 9:57 pm

Pete Roper wrote:
Laker wrote:
As one who is not mechanically inclined and who just pokes his nose into the forum from time to time, I sometimes wonder if my GRiSO is going to be okay or is a matter of time before the whole thing starts to fall apart?  It's a 2012 with the dreaded flat tappets, the pretzel was replaced with an Agostini crossover, the best mileage I've gotten with my Rexxer map is 33mpg on a recent trip to the Ozarks.

The tappets, the pretzel, does the oil get hot enough to burn the condensation out in the colder months, the possible over-fueling without a proper map (according to Rexxer the map is made to go with the stock exhaust)...is this thing a ticking time bomb or is it possible that the damn thing could run just fine for another 30K miles?

The honest answer is nobody knows for sure. My own belief based on my experience and extensive research is that it is highly likely that failure of the DLC on the tappets is more or less inevitable but how long they will last and when the failure will occur is governed by numerous factors and combinations of same.

Like Don what really pisses me off is that the company seemingly persisted in selling a product with a known flaw that they had already designed a fix for but didn't have the means to produce and that they are now fighting tooth and claw to deny as many claims as possible on the flimsiest of excuses! What it really comes down to is 'Nobody Knows'?

If i had the 1200 with the old top end ,i would do the fix and be done with it ...the bike is worth it and for peace of mind as well
my 2 cents
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ghezzi
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PostSubject: Re: Rollerless Riding?   Fri Oct 16, 2015 10:58 pm

If you want to look at it from the "bang for buck" perspective.
Do nothing and one day you may get the big "bang", then you pay big big bucks!

Spend a lot less money now, and always have peace of mind. Then you can enjoy endless miles of smiles for years to come. So you are just taking a great bike that is a joy to ride, and adding longevity and reliability.

I have many clients who have bought new Harleys that have absolutely no issues whatsoever. Then spend big dollars on Screamin Eagle big bore kits etc etc. Supposedly to make it a better ride.
I'll admit I just don't get the Harley thing, they don't ride how I like a bike to ride and no amount of money will improve it.

Spending money on a Guzzi is good value in my book. If you want an economical experience, don't ride.
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PostSubject: Re: Rollerless Riding?   Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:24 pm

Laker, do yourself a favour and turf the Agostini midpipe and the Rexxer map. Put the pretzel back on and let me send you a map that will give you 40+ mpg and a better ride. It won't save your tappets, but you'll travel farther per tank while they disintegrate. cheers
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klaas123
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PostSubject: Re: Rollerless Riding?   Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:07 am

I don't see any problem Bill, the bike won't suddenly fall apart.

I'll keep riding my GRiSO with flat tappets until the clearence starts getting larger fast which could be 50K km or more from now. In the mean time I hope the type of DLC used on the tappets likes the extra zinc I add to my engine oil (some do, some don't). No reason to worry! Smile
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klaas123
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PostSubject: Re: Rollerless Riding?   Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:14 am

Pete, is there a way to find out what type of DLC has been used on the tappets?
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Bill Hagan
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PostSubject: Re: Rollerless Riding?   Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:16 am

Many thanks to all for replies. Very reassuring.

Now, if I can only find the time on my calendar to do this trip on two wheels (or on trailer).

Tempus fugit ... and "fugit" can be spelled in various ways. jocolor

Bill

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klaas123
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PostSubject: Re: Rollerless Riding?   Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:23 am

On a trailer will take more time Bill, just ride it... hard!! (and enjoy the trip)
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Rollerless Riding?   Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:27 am

klaas123 wrote:
Pete, is there a way to find out what type of DLC has been used on the tappets?

Only way I can think of would be send one off for analysis at a lab that specialises in such stuff. Certain types of DLC really don't like zinc and phosphorous additives. In the Croatian study the best lubricants were vegetable oils and effectively nothing! Strange thing was that the failures could be pretty much instant in as few as fifty cycles!

Personally I wouldn't worry overly about ZDDP but would ensure that the additive package closely matched what the factory recommends.

Pete
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klaas123
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PostSubject: Re: Rollerless Riding?   Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:43 am

Thanks Pete, I will try to find a lab that can analize the DLP for me.
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Bill Hagan
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PostSubject: Re: Rollerless Riding?   Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:58 am

klaas123 wrote:
On a trailer will take more time Bill, just ride it... hard!! (and enjoy the trip)



Danke, klass123; I would much prefer to ride.

But, given my strong (near religious!  Wink ) objections to riding the 4-laned slab, the two-wheeled ride would take two days, and the pickup and trailer (tho slower) could do the interstate highways and would only need a (long) day for the trip.  See [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

But, as you may see from the second map -- [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] -- the first 400 or so miles west (to beyond Athens, Ohio) are on delightful motorcycle roads; after that, it’s miles (and miles and miles) of straight roads between fields of recently harvested corn and soybeans.  I do not wish to "waste" my new MPR4's on long straights.  And, as one nears Chicago, time of day and traffic become major concerns.

So, again, it’s more about finding the time on the calendar than simply mounting and riding.  But I appreciate your opinion and the ride is my first choice, time (and weather) permitting.

Worst case is wait ’til March or so, with some rides 'til then on milder days.  Sigh.

Bill
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klaas123
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PostSubject: Re: Rollerless Riding?   Sun Oct 18, 2015 9:41 am

If you pay for my trans atlantic flight I will ride your GRiSO to the dealer for free lol!
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little750
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PostSubject: Re: Rollerless Riding?   Sun Oct 18, 2015 11:21 am

I would do that aswell.
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Bill Hagan
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PostSubject: Re: Rollerless Riding?   Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:39 am

klaas123 wrote:
If you pay for my trans atlantic flight I will ride your GRiSO to the dealer for free lol!

little750 wrote:
I would do that aswell.

My eyes are welling up with tears at your touching offers.

As grateful, however, as I am, no need to ensure your passports are current quite yet.    Wink

Bill
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