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 Smooth is hiding from me

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Conor W
Grignapoco
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PostSubject: Smooth is hiding from me   Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:24 am

Start of my current ailments (hesitation up to 3k) is over in:

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Since then:

- Valve clearances checked. All consistent but 5 and 7. Reset to 4 and 6
- Plugs a little dark, even on both. Caps look all good - were changed to straight style after originals failed.
- injectors bench cleaned - patterns looked good on test.
- Pulled TB's. Pretty grubby so pulled the lot and bench cleaned.
- Some oil in airbox. Think during service done when I put in to get caps changed (after one failed) must have filled to max. Should have checked and is probably root cause of my woes. Pulled some oil to get level lower.
- TB's balanced. all manifold connection checked  tight and seem all good. Still multi turns on left bleed to get idle balance (correction to my earlier post - was same each time - always heavily open on left bleed).
- Cables tightened up per Roper + Phang method
- Hopeful start - but alas not much change with the hesitation still there just below 3k rpm, still popping etc. Idle lower but result ws bit jumpy from fully closed throttle. Should be solvable with some CO trimming.

- Hmmm. Had given everything a good flush but decided to have a real good look at stepper motor again. Pulled it. Inquisitiveness got better of me re: internals and pulled the motor itself from the body. Would have been OK but it hung up just a wee bit and dopey was too heavy handed and damaged internal terminals lon way out. Three cheers for me. Should have left the damn thing alone. Attempted repair and seemed OK but wishful thinking and no go once installed and definitely not functioning properly now. Fault code up.  Grrrr. Self inflicted wound.  

So, could still be airleak somewhere,  but for now so off to find a new stepper ...... and aren't those little critters expensive...
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Smooth is hiding from me   Sun Nov 29, 2015 11:03 am

I have several sets of buggered TB's with good steppers. Send me an address and I'll pop one in the mail. Are you certain the stop screws and linkage rod haven't been buggered about with?

Actually, thinking about it I am pretty sure I still have a known *Good*, unmolested, set of TB's in the munt-pile, they're my 'Rainy Day' spare set. If you'd like I can flick them over to you on loan. At least that way if the problem persists you can rule out TB's. Just don't stiff me on it please.

Pete
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Conor W
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PostSubject: Re: Smooth is hiding from me   Sun Nov 29, 2015 1:04 pm

Thats magic Pete. Lets start with just the stepper first (then I can rip you off later on TB's.)( cunning plan hatching...I'll have a whole 8V in the post from you before you know it). PM coming.

Only thing thats happened since it was running well was the cap replacement and service ( by Mario) and zero chance of either stop or linkage being mucked with there).

Conor
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Smooth is hiding from me   Sun Nov 29, 2015 1:12 pm

Poop.

Headers aren't a wee bit loose?

Can you post a pic of the plugs? Need to see the end. Something like this:

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Conor W
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PostSubject: Re: Smooth is hiding from me   Sun Nov 29, 2015 1:27 pm

As I found them before balance clean etc. bit rich. Had one run after TB etc clean and will pull tonight and load that up. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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wardentm
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PostSubject: Re: Smooth is hiding from me   Sun Nov 29, 2015 1:29 pm

If I was you, I like Mark, would at this stage try a new set of spark plugs, for a small cost, rule it out.
I have found just looking at em sometimes just does not cut it. Plug leads ?
Are you overplaying your issue ?
Simple, low cost ruleouts first.
Good luck
Cheers
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Smooth is hiding from me   Sun Nov 29, 2015 1:35 pm

Way too rich. Are you 100% certain the throttle stop was not touched, ever?
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Conor W
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PostSubject: Re: Smooth is hiding from me   Sun Nov 29, 2015 3:28 pm

Wardentm - well I know its very different behaviour than I had previously so know the beast is capable of much smoother running. Maybe if I knew no different I would put it down to 'character'. Its unpleasant to ride now at low speed cruise so thats why I'm bothering.

Certainly needed a tb etc clean and I have new plugs on hand to drop in now that all is clean.

Re: Throttle stop screw. Never is a long time but unless previous owner fiddled then cleaned off then re-marked it with paint spot I doubt it was touched. I haven't. Have even feeler- measured gap for my notes in case anyone ever does.

Tks for your trouble. Will toil away at it.

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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Smooth is hiding from me   Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:01 pm

I'll bung my *Good* set in the mail along with a spare stepper. It has all the hallmarks of buggered about with TB's. Just try my set, at least we can then rule that out.

Pete
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Smooth is hiding from me   Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:55 pm

Let me see if I can summarize:

- Post roller with 294C map. All good.
- +6 months, plug cap failed. Caps replaced and bike serviced.
- now hunts below 3000 RPM

Right?

The crux is the service after the cap failure. Whatever went wonky happened then. So, whomever serviced it fucked up, or there is a still spark problem. Yes, you trust the service agent, but that doesn't mean they didn't screw something up. No?

Spark problem - check the coil of the cap that failed. Check the wiring, especially grounding. Reseat the ECU connectors. Ensure the ECU is grounded properly.
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Conor W
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PostSubject: Re: Smooth is hiding from me   Tue Dec 01, 2015 5:06 am

Tks Mark. Will sort through those. Spark problem it may still be.

I'll get the TB bits from Pete soon. He sent them today with appropriate threats re what happens if throttle stops are mucked with. Very unpleasant. Involves parrots.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Smooth is hiding from me   Tue Dec 01, 2015 12:06 pm

It's very serious if he mentions the parrots. Shocked
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Oz1200Guzzi
Don Abbondio
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PostSubject: Re: Smooth is hiding from me   Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:16 pm

yes, the parrots! bad stuff indeed - beware!
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Smooth is hiding from me   Tue Dec 01, 2015 2:42 pm

Its not so much the parrots as the parrot woman....

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Dangerous, mad and loose in Western Australia. You have been warned!

Pete
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ghezzi
Fra Cristoforo
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PostSubject: Re: Smooth is hiding from me   Tue Dec 01, 2015 4:59 pm

I think memoirs from the "parrot women" on growing up under the Roper roof would make very interesting reading, especially if she inherited the same language skills.
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http://www.biketowbrisbane.com.au
DungeonMaster
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PostSubject: Re: Smooth is hiding from me   Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:13 pm

Goodness indeed.
A woman with Pete's warbling.
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Street
Nibbio
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PostSubject: Re: Smooth is hiding from me   Tue Dec 01, 2015 10:02 pm

With that kind of fire power, she could be mistaken fer a 'merican!
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Smooth is hiding from me   Tue Dec 01, 2015 10:25 pm

That was when she was studying at Cornell. (yes, I am proud my daughter is an 'Ivy League' girl! Very Happy). Some friends took her off to their parents home in Snaggletoothville and they spent an afternoon blazing away with an assortment of weapons.

I was actually glad as she spends a lot of time in the bush and if she goes to the tropics or overseas knowing how to handle a gun is an important safety skill if you're working in areas where there are large, aggressive and/or predatory fauna.

SHe is a naturalist and consequently isn't 'Touchy Feely'. She knows where she is in the food chain and is guide happy to use her brain and a weapon to remain at the top of it. She isn't a 'Let's pat the little kitty," when dealing with leopards sort of girl. She had that experience with an idiot when she was in Africa!

Pete
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Smooth is hiding from me   Tue Dec 01, 2015 10:47 pm

Back to the original problem. While I have a lot of respect for Mario he, like many others of 'That Generation', (He's younger than me.) still seem to be deeply suspicious of FI and rusted on to the 'Old' models. Certainly when I was over in Perth last time I tried to interest him in Guzzidiag and the opportunities it offered and I could virtually see the mental shutters coming down. The bloke he had wielding the spanners out the back couldn't even be bothered to say 'Hello'.

I really like and respect the man but I'm not sure if his staff are up to speed on the new stuff. He is using Rexxer I believe but only their basic 'Off the shelf' mapping options I think. I may be wrong but it wouldn't surprise me if something has been fucked with that shouldn't of been.

Pete
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LBC Tenni
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PostSubject: Re: Smooth is hiding from me   Tue Dec 01, 2015 10:54 pm

Ivy leaguers with formidable weaponry? My stereotype of these people may need some modification! Shocked
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Conor W
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PostSubject: Re: Smooth is hiding from me   Wed Dec 02, 2015 5:52 am

Still working away on it. Weekend awaits for next effort. Parrots circling...

(Mario is heart and soul of Guzzi here in Perth Pete. Thousands of the bikes young and old sold and well spannered by him (and Scott). Dropped everything to help me with basket case tappet bike bought from over east when he didn't have to. Like you he likes to keep us all on the road and is great to deal with. Assume my minor problems are caused by me. Fair chance thats a safe bet !)

Conor
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Smooth is hiding from me   Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:38 pm

Connor, no direct criticism was implied of M. He's a top bloke, really.
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Conor W
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PostSubject: Re: Smooth is hiding from me   Sat Dec 05, 2015 4:33 pm

Ignore me. Over protective.

Job yesterday - LH Head off, plug thread cleaned up (nothing to to do with tuning issue, just recovery from self inflicted wound - note to self - be more damned careful with those plugs). All back on. Awaiting Roper bits which AustraliaPost are still enjoying company of - the postie on his CT90 is still working its way across the Nullarbor.

Other notes to self from head off : watch those hemispherical buttons on top of cam followers - quietly drop out and loose themselves if not careful. And for some reason I found backing off cam chain tensioner took a bit more mucking about than it should have but got there.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Smooth is hiding from me   Sat Dec 05, 2015 5:13 pm

With the hemispherical 'Pads' the way I deal with them is to keep the rockers pulled up against them as I lift the cambox off. They can still be tricky little blighters. When I did Ralf's bike one was missing. Luckily I'd ordered a couple of spares for the same reason I have ordered spare valve spring shims. A few days after he got the bike back he checked the valves and I got an anguished call that he'd found one in the head, floating around. It turned out it must of been the missing one that had simply been hiding somewhere in the cambox assembly and then popped out in service! No harm done but if I ever get a *Missing* one again I'll be double and triple checking stuff!

TB's are in a big bag, they're insured so if they go missing don't fret too much.

Pete
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nev
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PostSubject: Re: Smooth is hiding from me   Sun Dec 20, 2015 3:56 am

Conner please keep us posted on how you are getting on with this problem

if Ropers throttle bodies is the fix or not.

nev
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