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 Hub Centre Steer

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ghezzi
Fra Cristoforo
Fra Cristoforo


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Join date : 2014-05-22
Age : 59

PostSubject: Hub Centre Steer   Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:21 pm

Motorcycle Innovations TS3
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In recent times many on this forum have expressed concern at the demise of our beloved GRiSO, and that Piaggio seem to be pursuing a design philosophy based on what the Hipster Cruiser set desire. I have previously stated, "If they don't make what you want, build it yourself"  

I hope to dedicate this thread to that end ............................ what I plan to build next.

WARNING TO THE FAINT OF HEART - THIS COULD END UP AT $100K ................. PLUS!
Every other week I transport a custom barge arsed chopper that costs more, yet can't be ridden. That is a WOFTAM!

Ray and Colin from Moto Inno have created something special, today I visited them and viewed their test mule. The main frame, 2 swingarms and all the HCS paraphernalia made from billet alloy with a true dry weight of 161kg (from a donor bike that weighed 198kg dry). Recreating the same peices in carbon fibre would bring the weight down by more than 30kg (est.) The front wheel is a BST carbon fibre item originally designed for the Bimota Tesi, however it is all the componentry from the hub back that is different from other designs. All the details are on the above website.

My personal design philosophy has been, a bike should always be comfortable enough to ride all day long, but not be so heavy and cumbersome that I can't ride it in a spirited fashion when the corners finally come. My Bellagio has dropped from 237kg to 202kg wet, it has also been transformed from a slow cornering (Tonti framed) 3 toed Sloth into a lithe and light fast steering easy riding ball of fun. Think Triumph 675R Sreet Triple. The real essence is in how little effort is required from the rider to hustle along in a spirited fashion on a tight winding road. Well I like it. As I get older my premium riding pleasure comes from the ease with which I can maintain good pace, I no longer have the strength or stamina to wrestle the bitches I owned when I was 21 (Yamaha XS1100 - 280kg+). I will ride my Guzzi off a cliff before I commit to ridding a 1500 Vulcan or any other piece of shiite!

The unreachable dream has always been 3 x 100. 100HP, 100ft/lbs, 100Kg. With a 1200 8V roller unit I'll have more than 100HP, 80ft/lbs torque and if we get under 150Kg wet, I'll be over the moon.

Colin will be in Canberra soon, hoping he has time to meet Mr.Roper, they have had lots of interest from Guzzi riders looking for alternatives to where the factory is heading, (we're all nutters).
The more the merrier, and the cheaper it will get.


Last edited by ghezzi on Mon Nov 30, 2015 12:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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Pete Roper
GRiSO
GRiSO


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Join date : 2013-05-29
Age : 59

PostSubject: Re: Hub Centre Steer   Sun Nov 29, 2015 10:51 pm

At the moment I'm as poor as a church mouse. Until Jude retires and we can access our, (Reasonably well planned but could be better super.) we are actually living close to the edge, somewhere I haven't been for the last 15 years at least.

Thing is HCS IS the next 'Great Leap Forward', I really want to be part of it and anything I can do to help, including investing money, I will be all over like a rash.

If one of these blokes wants to drop in and talk and better yet look at what we'd be looking at to get a HCS set-up on a road going Guzzi I will feed and water them and crawl seven miles over broken glass to stick burnt out matches in their shit!


Pete
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waterbottle
GRiSO
GRiSO


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Join date : 2015-02-02
Age : 55

PostSubject: Re: Hub Centre Steer   Mon Nov 30, 2015 12:27 am

Hahaha I wouldn't go that far, but I would happily pay for a good frame that a fellow guzzista gave me a little while back . I'll call you tomorrow Pete. Thumbs Up
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WCB
Biondino
Biondino


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Join date : 2013-10-19

PostSubject: Re: Hub Centre Steer   Wed Dec 02, 2015 11:56 am

It so happens, one of the bikes I lust most for is...

Is this what that is using?

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Pete Roper
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GRiSO


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PostSubject: Re: Hub Centre Steer   Wed Dec 02, 2015 12:02 pm

Pic not showing Doug.
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WCB
Biondino
Biondino


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PostSubject: Re: Hub Centre Steer   Wed Dec 02, 2015 12:18 pm

Damn Windows 7...

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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Hub Centre Steer   Wed Dec 02, 2015 12:48 pm

Yah, Tesi was one of the original HCS designs for *Real* motorbikes but there have been numerous other attempts from the early Ner-a-car through to Tomy Foale's designs. Modern systems are very similar to a twin wishbone system used on cars but with the wheel mounted 90* differently. The whole point is to separate steering and suspension forces with added side benefits of fully adjustable rake and trail which will remain constant over the length of the suspension travel.

Pete
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ghezzi
Fra Cristoforo
Fra Cristoforo


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Age : 59

PostSubject: Re: Hub Centre Steer   Wed Dec 02, 2015 1:21 pm

Same principle as Bimoto Tesi but totally different design from the hub back, as it also incorporates some of the principles of a Telelever design.
Some previous HCS systems had wide and low swingarms that could scrape when leaning. TS3 has alleviated this with a higher mounted, and what appears to be a longer swingarm.

The front suspension is controlled by 2 'A' arms. Most cars that use this system have unequal length 'A' arms, which creates geometry changes when moving up & down. TS3 has a pivot point in the middle of the swingarm, which in effect is the inboard pivot point for the lower 'A' arm except this pivot itself moves up and down slightly.
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HLMiskelly
Carlotto
Carlotto


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Join date : 2015-01-13
Age : 58

PostSubject: Re: Hub Centre Steer   Wed Dec 02, 2015 1:44 pm

There is limited information on this  S400 customized by the Japanese "Skull Motorcycles", but I absolutely love this bike.  The hub steering set-up is very simple and lightweight.  Very interesting.

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ghezzi
Fra Cristoforo
Fra Cristoforo


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PostSubject: Re: Hub Centre Steer   Wed Dec 02, 2015 1:51 pm

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In this photo you can see there are lots of differences to the examples above. I posed the question of making it out of chromolly and welding for ease of manufacture and economics. Their idea is also for exotic aesthetics and the high end of the market and collectors. That is apart from licensing major manufacturers.
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bahamazoo
Don Abbondio
Don Abbondio


Posts : 163
Join date : 2015-08-09
Age : 52

PostSubject: Re: Hub Centre Steer   Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:28 pm

mmmm stick th pots out th side and I'll have one!!
anyone remember Jack Shit??

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rboe
Tiradritto
Tiradritto


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PostSubject: Re: Hub Centre Steer   Tue Dec 15, 2015 7:31 pm

Oooh! That S400 is uber cool. I Likey.
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