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Street
Nibbio
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PostSubject: High Idle Issue   Tue Dec 15, 2015 6:37 pm

I decided to grab this topic out of the "What I did with my GRiSO Today" thread as I think it warrants further investigation/discussion.

Pete Roper wrote, "I've had a couple of bikes do the high idle thing. What do you reckon causes it? Mr. Bob's bike did it with the roller Termi map. It was worse with his Termi on which is a bit clogged after a plug cap went west and it filled the Cat with raw fuel for a bit! I gave him mine and it improved it a lot. We tried several maps but ended up with the Termi 'R' map but it was still idling a bit high, probably about 1,350. Playing with the CO didn't seem to help a lot."

I've been experiencing the same thing on my 2007 1100 with a High Mistral exhaust and a Beetle map. Steak has the cables and software and has been helping me out with it and hopefully he can provide more info. as to which map he installed, but at first it seemed to be a vast improvement in throttle response and almost completely eliminated the "pop, pop" on decel. Then at some point, everything changed. The bike began to have trouble starting and warming up and once I did manage to get it running, after a few miles when it had gotten good and hot, the idle suddenly climbed to 2000 rpm and would not come back down. Shutting it down and restarting it had no effect at all. Once the idle went up, it did not come back down. Steve adjusted the CO and that seemed to improve it slightly, but it's still too high, 1350-1500 rpm and it seems to be searching within that range, never really settling.

Perhaps unrelated, when at normal idle, the bike has always produced a very light "chuff, chuff" sound out of the pipe. Steak identified a couple of exhaust leaks, a couple of cracks which I re-welded and at the header joints which I fixed by replacing the header gasket rings. None of this appears to affect the performance and I'm less concerned about a little chuff, chuff than I am the high idle issue.

What do you suggest we try next? Insert head-scratching emoti.  Question
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Street
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PostSubject: Re: High Idle Issue   Tue Dec 15, 2015 6:40 pm

BTW, the Sacred Screw has never been fucked with.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: High Idle Issue   Tue Dec 15, 2015 7:52 pm

Have you ever had the throttle bodies off for a thorough cleaning? If not. Do so they will by this time almost certainly be gummed up with oil and mank.

Pete
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Street
Nibbio
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PostSubject: Re: High Idle Issue   Wed Dec 16, 2015 2:03 am

That's a good suggestion, Pete. By the way, I rode it pretty hard today for about 30 miles, got it nice and hot and it really wasn't too bad. I may have over estimated the current idle (post CO adjustment) by a little, it's somewhere between 1200 and 1400 rpm I'd reckon, and hunting around in that range for a comfortable place to settle. I'll get with Steak and have a go at cleaning the TBs, hopefully that will sort things out.
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jeremyb
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PostSubject: Re: High Idle Issue   Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:15 pm

Street wrote:
once I did manage to get it running, after a few miles when it had gotten good and hot, the idle suddenly climbed to 2000 rpm and would not come back down. Shutting it down and restarting it had no effect at all. Once the idle went up, it did not come back down.

Isn't the Stepper motor implicated in all this kinda 'fast-idle' stuff ???

I get this problem too in 2 situations (I have a 2008 1100, Zard pipe and custom Beetle-map):
1. Occasionally at start-up, my G11 will idle at around 2000. By the time I've got gloves on and/or duck-walked the heavy beast into facing the right way, its dropped back to normal. I've put this down to 'character'...
2. If he bike gets REALLY hot (like stuck-in-a-sea-of-Harleys-at-Bike-Week hot) the idle stays 2000+. Makes shifting into first a real event....   I put a simple shut-off valve (actually a fuel-line valve) in the stepper air supply, and this knocks it right down. Have to remember to open it later though....

The valve I used (from Amazon US)
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siabeid
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PostSubject: Re: High Idle Issue   Wed Dec 16, 2015 11:39 pm

I have been having this same problem with my 07 1100. It started 2 Septembers ago on my way back to Kettle Falls from Hood River, Oregon. I pulled into Prosser, WA and noticed the idle was high about 15 or 1600. It temperature was about 85 or 90 degrees F. The next time I throttled down it was normal - about 1200. The bike continued to do this for the rest of the season. I have 4 months or so of snow and ice, and live on the side of a mountain, so can't use the bikes for several months. Usually mid Nov through Feb. Anyway, this past season, it behaved the same, but got worse and worse until it was consistently idling at 1700 and sometimes even 2000 when it was really hot. (It was a VERY hot year). I cleaned the throttle bodies, which were very funky. It behaved better, but would hang at 16 or 1700 when it got really hot. I downloaded a Beetle map, synched the TBs and did a TPS reset. I did that at a friend's in Spokane and it ran and idled GREAT. By the time I got out of Spokane traffic, heading North, it was idling at 1700 again. It continued to idle at 16 or 1700 and sometimes would hang at 2000. I cleaned the TBs again, disconnected and plugged the stepper motor, resynced the TBs and reset the TPS. I THINK it is behaving properly now, but am not sure, because the weather was much cooler when I last worked on it. The bike was fully warmed and it idled consistently about 1200, but the air temperature was only about 45 degrees F. The weather never got warmer than that again when I had time on the weekend to mess with it. It seems to manifest itself more when the air temperature is hot. Then it started snowing and I have not been able to ride for the last month or so. Currently it is only 17 degrees F out. I sure hope it is fixed, because it is highly annoying and I don't know what else to do with it. Other than that, the bike has been flawless. It has about 13000 miles on it. I also have an 1100 Norge with 13500 miles on it and a v11 Lemans with about 22000 miles on it. Neither of them has had this issue.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: High Idle Issue   Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:10 am

If I could get my mits on an 1100 I would sure like to figure it out.

At this time, I suspect a tweak of the pressure-air-temp correction table might fix it.
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keenerkeen07
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PostSubject: Re: High Idle Issue   Thu Dec 17, 2015 4:21 am

My 1100 did that often until i removed the evap can and plumping  ...now its rare..but when so it idles at 1800 and then slowly drops back to 1200 in less than 10 seconds on a hot motor..

on a cold start it runs up to just under 1400 and then settles down to 1200... PDQ...
not sure if this is normal or not Smile
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: High Idle Issue   Sat Dec 19, 2015 4:24 pm

Apart from grubby throttle bodies I wonder if wear in the spindle bushings might be a contributory factor? Any wear there will allow the spindle to move and may result in the butterfly not closing as it should. More air being passed would cause a higher idle. Perhaps enough that the stepper can't compensate.

Just a thought, this baffles me a bit.

Pete
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: High Idle Issue   Sat Dec 19, 2015 8:32 pm

I've had a few instances recently where idle has been up around 1800 when pulling up, clutch in, 1st gear. Click into neutral and release clutch, idle returns to 1200. This would be typical of the 03 map with the clutch-in-idle-goes-up-by-300-rpm code in the map. Since all my 1200 maps use the 03 as a baseline, you think this is normal, even if idle is a tad high at 1800. However, since I have a Brembo RCS clutch master cylinder, without a microswitch, this shouldn't be. My microswitch dangles inert.

Riddle me that!
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: High Idle Issue   Sat Dec 19, 2015 8:46 pm

Goblins?
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: High Idle Issue   Sat Dec 19, 2015 9:14 pm

As good an explanation as any! cheers
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Street
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PostSubject: Re: High Idle Issue   Sat Dec 19, 2015 9:35 pm

For the sake of others I hope you guys can solve the riddle, but alas for me it's now a moot point - see "What I Did With My GRiSO Today" - my beloved GRiSO Rosso has passed away...
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: High Idle Issue   Sun Dec 20, 2015 6:52 am

I noted a high-idle again today. Issue went away after engine was above 100C. Curiouser and curiouser.
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Oz1200Guzzi
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PostSubject: Re: High Idle Issue   Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:08 am

Mark, might be something in the uncharted part of the map?
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: High Idle Issue   Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:08 am

May be, but I don't get it with every map/pipe combo. Weird. scratch
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Oz1200Guzzi
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PostSubject: Re: High Idle Issue   Sun Dec 20, 2015 10:11 am

no the map per se, but the unknown tables that are presented in TunerPro, I meant. Yeah you would think it would be consistent.

I do know, when I was using that dodgy cable on my old trusty rusty laptop, I would sometimes get this on putting a new map in. Haven't had an issue with my new laptop - maybe something in that after all, maybe a timing issue?
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: High Idle Issue   Sun Dec 20, 2015 10:37 am

Hmm. There was that one iteration of the Black-X map that would idle high at any temp, after the warm-up period. The only real difference was the outlandish pressure-air-temp table I had concocted.

It could be a minor corruption like a stuck bit, or could be an If-Then-Else condition in the map that only manifests itself under the right corrections values. The bulk of the maps I've released for the G12 have had the same pressure-air-temp, fuel-air-temp and warm-up tables. These Ago maps are newbs.

I'm terribly vexed.
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Oz1200Guzzi
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PostSubject: Re: High Idle Issue   Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:05 pm

It will come to you in a moment of brilliance, Mark.

yeah a stuck bit could do it. The IF-THEN-ELSE could be a nightmare to find. Has anyone done a dump of the code running on the ECU? Further, has anyone got their head around the resident code for the 5AM - I have been thinking of doing such over the break, but I keep getting the cold sweats every time I think about it. However, if this was done, we could get a better idea of why some things happen, and maybe even improve things a bit.

Just kicking bricks here, please don't chuck rocks, my mind is elsewhere.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: High Idle Issue   Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:12 pm

I keep hoping for that 'eureka' moment. As for the rest, I can't be arsed. Maybe when I'm done mapping and am looking for something else to occupy my idle time....



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siabeid
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PostSubject: Re: High Idle Issue   Fri Mar 04, 2016 8:09 pm

In reference to my last post about high idle on 12/16/15:

Yesterday was a nice afternoon in the 50's. The road was snow free so I took the GRiSO (2007 1100) out for about 40 or 50 miles. The engine was thoroughly warmed up and it idled fine. Currently the stepper motor is disconnected and plugged off. Also, I got a pair of 15mm risers from Onur. They installed in 10 minutes and look great and are way more comfortable. It is funny how bringing the bars up and back 5/8" can make such a difference! I highly recommend them. Also, from the time I ordered them to their arrival in remote NE Washington, it was only 2 weeks. All the way from Turkey, through customs even. Thanks, Onur.
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pauldaytona
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PostSubject: Re: High Idle Issue   Fri Mar 04, 2016 10:08 pm

When I had the high idle thing, It was always dropping down the moment I goto neutral, is that the same for you all?
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PostSubject: Re: High Idle Issue   Fri Mar 04, 2016 11:16 pm

pauldaytona wrote:
When I had the high idle thing, It was always dropping down the moment I goto neutral, is that the same for you all?
Yep, neutral with clutch out = normal idle, pull clutch in , idle goes up,    Not all the time though ,  Suspect
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bahamazoo
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PostSubject: Re: High Idle Issue   Sat Mar 05, 2016 11:34 am

I get normal cold start idle, then happy @1100rpm.
After a run, occasionally she will idle up around 1500, clutch in or out -in neutral- but keep her in gear and juuuust ease the clutch, she'll drop back to 1100 and stay there, clutch in, or neutral.
Happens hot or otherwise.
But I can't 'make' it happen.
Cleaned TBs, but no change.
Non standard map Very Happy
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paulbrice
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PostSubject: Re: High Idle Issue   Sat Mar 05, 2016 8:22 pm

Just to add my experience. Running Beetles map with a termi now (makes no difference to the problem here as prob has been same with standard set up - 2009 GRiSO with any map incl original) and two observations....
1. after start or restart it always high idles until the first time you pull the clutch and stick it in neutral - staying in gear with clutch in it will perpetuate high idle for ever until you select neutral, but just needs one neutral selection - it feels like a software thing cos I'm an engineer engineer.
2. I had big high revs prob about 1000 miles ago and pulled the throttle bodies out, really hard cleaned them and squirted cleaner in idle control - after rebuild it defo idled lower than ever and never went high. Until recently seems to be building again - coud be crap in inlet

My thinking is if you block the air to idle valve (and block each air feed from same) this should kill the idle valve impact caused by valve - Personally seems to me it will run fine/better with no control at idle - bot air bleeds shut . Then it is just oil and crap coating the throttle bodiesthat defo build up (I ru 10W60 Mobil 1 but change it often that doesn't help as new oil has more oil volatiles than old but low level it) BUT I agree with Pete on the impact of wobbly throttle body axles - if I reach in and twiddle them (not throttle direction but just wiggle) the idle does change a lot & seems slack as a badgers crotch (if that is a truism, I never touched one that way)!

I also have a 'stumble' problem that is erratic and feels like mechanical thump but could also be oil hitting one side throttle body - not bad enough ever to stall but very evident & happens often at up to 3000 rpm where it feels like an odd misfire. All part of the fun/character of non digital machine though
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PostSubject: Re: High Idle Issue   Today at 6:03 am

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