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 Hold the Mayo!

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Triman023
Grignapoco
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PostSubject: Hold the Mayo!   Wed Feb 10, 2016 5:05 pm

My 6,000 mile 2013 GRiSO is starting to misbehave at idle. When I start it from cold it wants to idle at 500, I gave it a bit of throttle and in 30 seconds it settles to 1,200 RPMs. Then its OK till I shut it off and start up again. I checked the TPS, its at 4.6 and checked the valves, they are dead on at 4 and 6. There was a deposit of mayonnaise in the right valve cover, left was OK.
We had a series of cold rainy days and I was riding in short hops.

I am guessing its gunked up.

I assume that I need to wring out the moisture with a long ride.

I will also check the TB balance.

Running Beetles excellent Roller map

Any other ideas?
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Oz1200Guzzi
Don Abbondio
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PostSubject: Re: Hold the Mayo!   Wed Feb 10, 2016 5:06 pm

block off your oil cooler, at least partially
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Hold the Mayo!   Wed Feb 10, 2016 5:11 pm

What's the ambient temp?
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Triman023
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PostSubject: Re: Hold the Mayo!   Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:04 pm

two weeks ago it was 55F and raining, today it was 90F and 25% humidity. The weather breaks records every day. My "problem" is that I am 3 miles from work. Need to ride more long rides.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Hold the Mayo!   Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:16 pm

Do you keep the oil at the 'Full' mark on the dipstick? If so this is way too much and you have probably pumped enough out into the airbox to clog the stepper and muck up the throttle bodies.

Also the 'Sacred Screw' hasn't been messed with has it? TPS should be 4.8. It's usually read accurately.

Pete
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Hold the Mayo!   Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:22 pm

Does it act the same at 55 as it does at 90?
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Triman023
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PostSubject: Re: Hold the Mayo!   Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:14 am

Stay tuned riding today and its 88f

Sacred screw has never been touched. I balanced the TBs at 5,000miles
Oil is at the proper level, not full

TPS has always been 4.6 from new
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Bill Hagan
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PostSubject: Re: Hold the Mayo!   Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:52 am

Triman023 wrote:
Stay tuned riding today and its 88f

Sacred screw has never been touched. I balanced the TBs at 5,000miles
Oil is at the proper level, not full

TPS has always been 4.6 from new



I am ignoring the 88.  Very annoying. Wink

WRT the oil-level issue, must admit that the capacity-v.-reality has long befuddled me -- along with similar puzzles, e.g., women, generally. queen scratch

In, however, the course of my plodding along at a disabled snail's pace on my Norge (and it still looks like this ... no, in truth, worse).  Embarassed


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Anyway, when for reasons I cannot (rather conveniently) recall, I pulled the oil cooler.  

I would have supposed that draining the sump at the plug, the system's lowest point, would have drained c.98% of the oil, including that from the cooler.

In my case, however, I got more than 300ml from the cooler.


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Of course, ever the nervous nellie, I now worry about "lag" on start-up while the cooler fills.   Rolling Eyes

YM(l)MV.   Wink

Bill
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waterbottle
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PostSubject: Re: Hold the Mayo!   Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:40 am

Lag ? There are Two Oil Pumps Bill, One for the engine oil pressure system that has the oil filter in the circuit, The 2nd oil pump supplies the cylinder head cooling circuit via the oil cooler ( tiny ports in and around the exhaust port and valve guide area ) Only a suction pick-up strainer before the oil pump, then through cooler - heads - back to sump. Nothing can be hurt starting up with the cooler empty, it'll fill in seconds anyway Thumbs Up
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Bill Hagan
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PostSubject: Re: Hold the Mayo!   Thu Feb 11, 2016 11:51 am

waterbottle wrote:
Lag ? There are Two Oil Pumps Bill, One for the engine oil pressure system that has the oil filter in the circuit,   The 2nd oil pump supplies the cylinder head cooling circuit via the oil cooler ( tiny ports in and around the exhaust port and valve guide area )  Only a suction pick-up strainer before the oil pump, then through cooler - heads - back to sump. Nothing can be hurt starting up with the cooler empty, it'll fill in seconds anyway Thumbs Up


Many thanks.

Ancora imparo.   study

Bill
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Hold the Mayo!   Thu Feb 11, 2016 12:43 pm

Sorry to correct you Ron but Bill's Norge is a 2V model with a single pump. The thing is he still doesn't have to worry as the cooler does run a thermostat on the 2V engine so delivery will be pretty much instant if the filter is pre-filled before installation and the cooler will fill via the bleed circuit and be full long before the waxstat starts to open.

Pete
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waterbottle
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PostSubject: Re: Hold the Mayo!   Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:01 pm

Hahaha , shit , I'll Jagg one right eventually.   Laughing   Sorry Bill .
So , should he pump some oil up through the system before starting her up then ?
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Oz1200Guzzi
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PostSubject: Re: Hold the Mayo!   Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:28 pm

Bill, as part of your re-installation process (especially when you have re-filled your oil contents and are in the process of setting your valve clearances), I see you already have access to the nut on the front of the crank shaft.

So, keeping it really simple (cos that's how I understand shit), put your socket with ratchet on said nut and rotate clockwise (?) for a good time (say over 30 seconds) and you should be able to confidently fill all said crevices throughout your engine with the magic fluid.

This would include the aforementioned oil cooler. It could also be said that some exercise was done in the process - maybe a win/win?

Ciao Bill...
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Triman023
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PostSubject: Re: Hold the Mayo!   Thu Feb 11, 2016 4:42 pm

OK Enough of Bill, back to me, cause its all about me!
Just rode to work at a balmy 80f, and when I started it up the idle dropped to about 800. I gave it a bit of throttle and then it held at 1100. Idle was normal for the ride. Going to take it out on the freeway and heat it up later. Hopefully I can boil off the crud and it will be OK.
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Bill Hagan
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PostSubject: Re: Hold the Mayo!   Thu Feb 11, 2016 6:04 pm

Triman023 wrote:
OK Enough of Bill, back to me, cause its all about me!
Just rode to work at a balmy 80f, and when I started it up the idle dropped to about 800. I gave it a bit of throttle and then it held at 1100. Idle was normal for the ride. Going to take it out on the freeway and heat it up later. Hopefully I can boil off the crud and it will be OK.

Ha! Very Happy

But you are right.

OTOH, I did learn lots. jocolor

Seriously, good luck with yours ... tho a pox on your weather. Low teens to single-digit for our lows here next few nights. Brrrrr.

Ride for those of us who can't.

Bill
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bahamazoo
Don Abbondio
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PostSubject: Re: Hold the Mayo!   Fri Feb 12, 2016 3:25 am

Triman023, I too generate mayo with my short daily commute, although "mine is longer than yours"...

the mayo collects in the RH cover, it being the highest point with bike on side stand (hot air rising), cooling down after the ride, then condensation of the moisture produced during combustion that wasn't 'boiled off' at solid operating temp occurs.
The idle issue may likely be related... mayo will make its way out of the rocker covers, into the breather box located in front of the airbox -this is supposed to (Pete?) separate and collect the mayo, but of course it fills up/overflows, and then the mayo continues its journey into your airbox proper. From there its another short run into your throttle bodies, gooping them up, and onwards and outwards from there, as the emission control system was 'designed'.
I have replumbed the line from the breather box into a 'sump' bottle (lives under the seat), so that any errant mayo doesn't end up in the airbox, and can be emptied as required.

As Tony said, blank off the oil cooler intake for the winter. Stop the oil being iced up on its way around.
As Beetle will say, ride further and flog it like a red headed step child. Get the operating temp over 100c
and as Pete will say, "why the @#$k are we riding big machines on short runs...
Or something similar!
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Triman023
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PostSubject: Re: Hold the Mayo!   Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:41 am

Thanks Don, good info. I am intrigued by your breather box. Can you give me a clue to the location of the breather box line?
I have noticed my 69 Triumph spits its mayo out the breather hose attached to the rear fender, when I park it. It leaved a drop of oil under the engine and a blob of crud under the rear fender, you always know I have been there!
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bahamazoo
Don Abbondio
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PostSubject: Re: Hold the Mayo!   Sat Feb 13, 2016 1:29 am

No worries Grigna Smile

the GRiSO is little different to her cousin, I have a lot more room under the tank...
this should be your GRiSO...

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Part #1 is the breather box thingy, or 'housing' as MG insist, and #12 is the blow by hose that connects it to the air box.
I removed this hose from the air box, (then plugged that inlet spigot) and extended it about 300mm which ended up into a collector that sits in the space next to my battery.
As I said, the 1200 has a fair bit of empty space to fiddle with... I haven't spent much time with an undressed GRiSO, but I hear that little space exists, but Im sure with a bit of head scratching and a couple of cold 'thought accelerators', options should be found!
Now, as to the part that hot oily fumes play in correctly lubricating the throttle bodies and associated hardware, I'm not sure of the requirement.
I do know that solidifying mayo does them no favours...

Cheers,
Pat
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Triman023
Grignapoco
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PostSubject: Re: Hold the Mayo!   Sun Feb 14, 2016 6:33 pm

I removed about a cup and a half of oil from my engine. Now I have the proper level.
Went on a long canyon ride today 80f. Bike ran flawlessly, excellent performance through the canyons and idles where it should be. +43.5 MPG
Just for grins I checked the oil level when hot, it was higher than cold. Not much but some.
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PostSubject: Re: Hold the Mayo!   Today at 4:46 am

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