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 Maps: A change in policy.

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beetle
GRiSO
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Posts : 3966
Join date : 2013-09-30

PostSubject: Maps: A change in policy.   Thu Feb 18, 2016 5:21 pm

To date I have given a lot of maps away. Some folks have generously donated towards the cost of development, some have sent me enough money to barely buy a donut. Some I never hear from again. Some have stolen my work and profited by on-selling them. Although it was never my intention to sell the maps, it has cost me quite a bit to develop them, in time, fuel and logging gear. Not to mention wear & tear on my GRiSO. I've had two commissions to build specific maps, and they were both paid commissions.

I will no longer be giving maps away. From now on, if anyone wants a map, it will cost you USD $100 up front. There will be no warranty, expressed or implied. You will accept all responsibility. I will always support you and you always get free updates forever. Worst case scenario, if the map doesn't work for you, or we can't get you going right, you will get a refund. If you give me any grief, I will follow Roper's lead and sack you. You'll be cutoff forever.

If you don't want to comply with my new policy, don't ask me for a map. If you think I'm being rude, tough titties.

End.


Last edited by beetle on Thu Feb 18, 2016 6:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Ralf z
Tiradritto
Tiradritto


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Age : 49

PostSubject: Re: Maps: A change in policy.   Thu Feb 18, 2016 5:38 pm

Fair call.

Still I think you are ripping yourself off..
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pokeyjoe
Don Abbondio
Don Abbondio


Posts : 121
Join date : 2014-08-22

PostSubject: Re: Maps: A change in policy.   Thu Feb 18, 2016 6:04 pm

The going rate by a commercial outfit is much, much more. And you get much less. You certainly don't get anything tailored to your bike. You are ripping yourself off. You need to at least collect enough for a night at the pub for you and a mate.
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ghezzi
Fra Cristoforo
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Posts : 1692
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Age : 59

PostSubject: Re: Maps: A change in policy.   Thu Feb 18, 2016 6:32 pm

Ask Al (The Saint) how much he paid for dyno time..................
that was after installing one of your maps, then modifying his pipe and fiddling with the map to suit.
Even though his map by bum dyno was within 2% of a gnats whisker of the final incantation, it still took several hours and cost several hundred bucks to reach that level of perfection he desired.

Beetle, your maps should be worth at least 50% of a full dyno tune.
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http://www.biketowbrisbane.com.au
Oz1200Guzzi
Don Abbondio
Don Abbondio


Posts : 1776
Join date : 2014-03-13
Age : 62

PostSubject: Re: Maps: A change in policy.   Thu Feb 18, 2016 6:45 pm

Mark, I agree. Time to sell your product. $50 USD is probably a bit light, knowing the effort that goes into it. $100 USD would be a better mark, methinks. Just saying. I do have a fair idea of how much it costs and I probably owe you another bottle of your favourite tipple for your efforts for me, or do you want some real $$$s?
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Maps: A change in policy.   Thu Feb 18, 2016 7:01 pm

Fixed (due to peer pressure). Suspect

Tony, you did all the hard fun work yourself. I sat at my PC and clicked, all the while enjoying a tipple. If you really feel you still owe me, I'm really quite fond of Maker's Mark or Gentlmen Jack. I love you Or, just shout me a few at the next Cabal. Thumbs Up
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bioman
Tiradritto
Tiradritto


Posts : 348
Join date : 2014-05-06

PostSubject: Re: Maps: A change in policy.   Thu Feb 18, 2016 7:32 pm

beetle wrote:
From now on, if anyone wants a map, it will cost you USD $100 up front.


Fair enough.  Nobody is forced to buy one of your maps, so it is a fair deal if you ask me.  And considering the amount of time you put in it, it seems to me a superdeal for any GRiSO-owner!

(P.S. I never got around to put your 1100 map on my bike. Will pay you as soon as I find time & a laptop to learn how to do this. )
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Oz1200Guzzi
Don Abbondio
Don Abbondio


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Age : 62

PostSubject: Re: Maps: A change in policy.   Thu Feb 18, 2016 7:42 pm

Basketball
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Pete Roper
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Age : 59

PostSubject: Re: Maps: A change in policy.   Thu Feb 18, 2016 8:41 pm

Cheap at twice the price!

Pete
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Harry Paratestes
Grignapoco
Grignapoco


Posts : 123
Join date : 2014-11-04

PostSubject: Re: Maps: A change in policy.   Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:13 pm

You're gonna hate me for this but....
Up until today you haven't actually put a price on your maps, so in my opinion, you shouldn't be all that pissed off. When I asked for a price you didn't give me a number but instead asked me to pay what I thought the map was worth to me and only if it was an improvement. (not sure if those were the exact words, but something to that extent) I took this as meaning after I remapped the bike.
I'm pretty sure that you've put a hell of a lot of time and effort into your work, but if you don't put a value on it, and hand it out pro bono, sooner or later you're gonna get pro boned.
So now you think I'm an asshole... I'm ok with that.

I'll email you some cash as soon as it dries out long enough in Vancouver to do the remap and test ride the GRiSO - this may not be anytime soon.

For the rest of you that have benefited from Beetles hard work: Pay the guy for fuck sake! - if for nothing more than the convenience to remap the bike yourself on your own time in your own place. That in itself is worth the cost of admission.

Now you all think I'm an asshole... Also ok with that.
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beetle
GRiSO
GRiSO


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PostSubject: Re: Maps: A change in policy.   Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:47 pm

I'm not pissed off. It's just a change in reality. Whatever I typed at you remains unchanged. You've already got a map. Make a donation or profess your undying love - or tell me I suck - it's your call. This change in policy is not retroactive and doesn't affect you.

I've been told I should have been charging from the get-go. I've been flamed for being a scam artist. This is the new world order. My intellectual property is no longer free.
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Harry Paratestes
Grignapoco
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PostSubject: Re: Maps: A change in policy.   Thu Feb 18, 2016 11:34 pm

Wasn't complaining. Just offering my viewpoint.
Years ago I worked for a company that offered project site visits and material quotations free of charge. A lot of good contractors saw the value in the service, but the workload became more than we could handle and the sales were not increasing at nearly the same rate. Turns out more than a few contractors were just using us to do their materials list and shopping our quotations. Good work handed right to our competition. So we decided to put a value on our product - the site visit - and charge a fee for the service. This helped with the workload cutting it down substantially, then we refunded the fee if the customer cut a PO for the project - increasing our sales, plus I started making it home in time for dinner - sweet!
The second part of that tortoise and hare story - the part about the refund - clearly doesn't apply to you, however, what we learned from the experience was that if you don't put a value on a product or service, it isn't worth anything. In our case it was even worse because we were working longer hours only to boost our competitors sales figures.

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Harry Paratestes
Grignapoco
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PostSubject: Re: Maps: A change in policy.   Thu Feb 18, 2016 11:48 pm

Also I wasn't getting laid much - This is important.
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beetle
GRiSO
GRiSO


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PostSubject: Re: Maps: A change in policy.   Fri Feb 19, 2016 12:10 am

I've been told, time and again, the world is suspicious if something is 'free'. I'm just towing the line.


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waterbottle
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Posts : 1037
Join date : 2015-02-02
Age : 55

PostSubject: Re: Maps: A change in policy.   Fri Feb 19, 2016 12:56 am

Beetle, it's about time Thumbs Up
I've been using several of your maps since about mid 2014 and never a problem, improvements each time. But you know that .  Prior to this I too had fallen into the clutches of the PC 5 ( Pretty Crap ) add ons and after $1000 + F all improvement, so that shit sits idle in the cupboard in the shed. I guess its all relative, but if someone can splash 20k Aus on a new bike , a couple of hundred $ to sort the fuel mapping is cheap.  I didn't pay you for the last map, just sent you some crap from work, and it's going into 2 bikes ( greedy bastard hey Razz ) I think I have a PayPal acc address for you at work, but pm me the details please. 
cheers drunken Viva la Fiesta
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muzhik
Don Abbondio
Don Abbondio


Posts : 58
Join date : 2015-05-05

PostSubject: Re: Maps: A change in policy.   Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:58 am


Let the record show that I'll gladly pay Beetle $100 cash for a map once I have my GRiSO in-hand - probably also a fair amount of Makers Mark should we ever cross paths. I feel just in this forum I've already gleaned $100-worth of info just from his posts.

Lest he get any ideas... This, however is off the table. No matter how many drinks we should share.

Harry Paratestes wrote:
Also I wasn't getting laid much - This is important.
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MrBob
Grignapoco
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Age : 62

PostSubject: Re: Maps: A change in policy.   Fri Feb 19, 2016 3:40 am

I'm with Tony, send me your details and I'II top up the pot.
It's more than worth it for the miles of smiles. Very Happy
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Triman023
Grignapoco
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Age : 66

PostSubject: Re: Maps: A change in policy.   Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:58 am

Mark

I am using one of your latest maps and have not sent more money for it yet. My finances are on a shoestring so I will be making payments till I hit the $100 mark. I deeply appreciate how your map makes my GRiSO run like a normal motorcycle should run.

Please PM me the Paypal address for payment.

Also would be really helpful to have a web page to just order, pay and download the map(s) needed.
Then you can just sit back in your golden lounge chair and watch the money pile up!

Please come by in your Lear Jet and I will buy you a beer:cheers:
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beetle
GRiSO
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PostSubject: Re: Maps: A change in policy.   Fri Feb 19, 2016 12:16 pm

I will also supply Russian hookers.


FYI, I've already got a secret website I built ages ago. At the moment it allows you to download maps for free, and there's a 'donate' button. I'll be changing that, then posting the link.
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Oz1200Guzzi
Don Abbondio
Don Abbondio


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PostSubject: Re: Maps: A change in policy.   Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:41 pm

Love the progress we are seeing here. awesome
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Pete Roper
GRiSO
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Posts : 3776
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Age : 59

PostSubject: Re: Maps: A change in policy.   Fri Feb 19, 2016 2:28 pm

It is one of the huge problems of the 'Internet Age'. If you do anything helpful and are open and honest there is a significant number of people who will either take what is offered for granted and demand more while returning nothing or, what vexes me even more, there are the 'Sneerers' who because stuff is given freely consider that whoever said is offering the information or service does so without carrying on like a pork chop and big noting themselves it can be worthy of nothing but derision.

It was this attitude, along with a pathetic neediness on the part of some people, that recently caused me to sack the entire Wildguzzi board. A shame as it used to be a fun place populated by people with intelligence and a wicked sense of humour. Nowadays it's just wall to wall complainers and people whose lives went into stasis when Guzzi stopped building Loopframes. The folks I still want to stay in touch with like Chuck I can rabbit on to on the Cheese board or AF-1's site.

Pete
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muzhik
Don Abbondio
Don Abbondio


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PostSubject: Re: Maps: A change in policy.   Fri Feb 19, 2016 4:50 pm

beetle wrote:
I will also supply Russian hookers.

Therein lies my expertise...

meaning I'm fluent in Russian, of course Very Happy
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Maps: A change in policy.   Sat Feb 20, 2016 5:50 pm

Map store completed. Check it out: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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Oz1200Guzzi
Don Abbondio
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PostSubject: Re: Maps: A change in policy.   Sat Feb 20, 2016 5:57 pm

Good Work Mark!
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Conor W
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PostSubject: Re: Maps: A change in policy.   Sun Feb 21, 2016 5:43 am

good on you Mark. New site works well and have paid up retrospectively !
Conor

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PostSubject: Re: Maps: A change in policy.   Today at 9:53 am

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