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 More idle issues

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marktjoliver
Montanarolo
Montanarolo


Posts : 21
Join date : 2015-07-16
Age : 52

PostSubject: More idle issues   Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:16 am

Hi all,
Went for a long spin to the Antrim coast and GRiSO was not behaving very well. In fairness there had been
some clues beforehand namely the idle was intermittent at 1200 rpm and would occasionally idle at 2000 plus rpm
.Now the bike refuses to idle at 1200rpm unless I block the pipe from the air box to the stepper motor. I removed the
cars from the machine and cleaned them on the bench, a fair amount of mess was cleaned from them, but when put back
on the bike same issue. Reset tps using guzzi diagnosis and balanced carbs and then reset tps multiple times with no
improvement. I suspect the stepper is faulty and my question is ,
Is it possible to take apart the stepper?
to buy a replacement is fairly expensive and I followed a post about bypassing the stepper but would prefer
to repair what I have.
Thx in advance mark
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little750
Grignapoco
Grignapoco


Posts : 194
Join date : 2014-05-07
Age : 61

PostSubject: Re: More idle issues   Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:18 pm

Have a look here Tony looks like he got it sorted. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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Oz1200Guzzi
Don Abbondio
Don Abbondio


Posts : 1783
Join date : 2014-03-13
Age : 62

PostSubject: Re: More idle issues   Tue Apr 12, 2016 4:33 pm

yeah confirm sorted - liquimoly carburetor and valve cleaner - about 10-15 ml into the stepper motor hose while idling, though not all at once. Several puffs of blue/white smoke, a stumble on idle and all should be golden.
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Pete Roper
GRiSO
GRiSO


Posts : 3783
Join date : 2013-05-29
Age : 59

PostSubject: Re: More idle issues   Tue Apr 12, 2016 8:03 pm

If your bike is a flat tappet model it may be a sign the tappets are seriously worn too.
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pauldaytona
Fra Cristoforo
Fra Cristoforo


Posts : 383
Join date : 2014-01-07

PostSubject: Re: More idle issues   Wed Apr 13, 2016 12:13 am

Well, if that solves it, then there was dirt inside. I know that some people put amounts of brake cleaner through the valve and that didn't solve it. I suspect not all problems will be solved this way.
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waterbottle
GRiSO
GRiSO


Posts : 1045
Join date : 2015-02-02
Age : 55

PostSubject: Re: More idle issues   Wed Apr 13, 2016 12:30 am

Brake cleaner can be pretty savage on rubber parts, may cause more sticking than help ?
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Conor W
Grignapoco
Grignapoco


Posts : 152
Join date : 2014-11-29

PostSubject: Re: More idle issues   Wed Apr 13, 2016 5:43 am

Stepper isn't maintainable from my ( unfortunate)experience. The shaft has a one direction 'barb' and you do damage pulling it out. Well I did. Sad  I'd try Tony's nethod multiple times - the damn things are too expensive.
Conor
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pauldaytona
Fra Cristoforo
Fra Cristoforo


Posts : 383
Join date : 2014-01-07

PostSubject: Re: More idle issues   Wed Apr 13, 2016 6:10 am

I remember someone who got it apart and back togheter

stepper is like this thing, the nose goes in and out and blocks the airflow.
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marktjoliver
Montanarolo
Montanarolo


Posts : 21
Join date : 2015-07-16
Age : 52

PostSubject: Re: More idle issues   Wed Apr 13, 2016 2:28 pm

Thanks for all the replies, I tried multiple times with valve oil to get the valve to operate with no success.  Great picture of the valve , does anyone know if the valve  is normally closed or open at rest before the ignition is switched on as mine is permanently open all the time?
Might try removing the stepper from the bike again and soaking in a solvent
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Pete Roper
GRiSO
GRiSO


Posts : 3783
Join date : 2013-05-29
Age : 59

PostSubject: Re: More idle issues   Wed Apr 13, 2016 3:02 pm

I have numerous sets of dead, fucked with, throttle bodies with steppers. PM me your address and I'll pop one in the mail. If it solves the problem you can pay for it. If not? Send it back.

Pete
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Conor W
Grignapoco
Grignapoco


Posts : 152
Join date : 2014-11-29

PostSubject: Re: More idle issues   Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:19 am

Took pliers to my busted unit for you

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pauldaytona
Fra Cristoforo
Fra Cristoforo


Posts : 383
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PostSubject: Re: More idle issues   Thu Apr 14, 2016 10:57 am

it looks like the unit is only pressed in? Is there something broken?, it looks like it can be put together.
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pauldaytona
Fra Cristoforo
Fra Cristoforo


Posts : 383
Join date : 2014-01-07

PostSubject: Re: More idle issues   Thu Apr 14, 2016 11:00 am

looks like it, nose is scew on if im correct
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marktjoliver
Montanarolo
Montanarolo


Posts : 21
Join date : 2015-07-16
Age : 52

PostSubject: Re: More idle issues   Thu Apr 14, 2016 1:49 pm

Great pictures and thanks for the great response. Ive tried to gently lever out the unit from the metal enclosure but it hasnt budged any tips on removing the motor from the housing without breaking any parts?
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Conor W
Grignapoco
Grignapoco


Posts : 152
Join date : 2014-11-29

PostSubject: Re: More idle issues   Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:25 pm

As you are finfing its hard yo get hold of inner body. Pulling on top connector risks ripping connector from the motor body. ( I know this...). That might be repairable if you are lucky but not for me. Need to be careful but a puff of compressed air in through one of the ports could help pop it...? Will experiment tonight on busted unit for you.
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pauldaytona
Fra Cristoforo
Fra Cristoforo


Posts : 383
Join date : 2014-01-07

PostSubject: Re: More idle issues   Sat Apr 16, 2016 2:46 am

maybe heating the alu body with a paint stipper gently so it expands? Not to much so the plastic won't melt.
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Conor W
Grignapoco
Grignapoco


Posts : 152
Join date : 2014-11-29

PostSubject: Re: More idle issues   Sat Apr 16, 2016 6:08 am

I tried air method - no luck

Sent Mark a pm with a very agricultural method that I got to work ok. Involves drilling holes in body so its a last ditch method.

At end of it all though there us still not much useful to be done once you open it up. If its not cleaning up with tony's method there is little more likely to be gained by opening it. If motor itself is the problem doubt much could be done with it.



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marktjoliver
Montanarolo
Montanarolo


Posts : 21
Join date : 2015-07-16
Age : 52

PostSubject: Re: More idle issues   Fri Jun 17, 2016 1:58 pm

Ok, this might sound drastic but i might try adjusting the yellow painted screw as the idle issue is back and im getting impatient. When i push gently the bar connecting the 2 throttle bodies the revs go down to an acceptable level and the screw appears to be a stop item. Any advice before i proceed.

thx in advance
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Pete Roper
GRiSO
GRiSO


Posts : 3783
Join date : 2013-05-29
Age : 59

PostSubject: Re: More idle issues   Fri Jun 17, 2016 3:01 pm

Don't! Whatever you do don't touch that screw! Apart from anything else it won't achieve the desired effect because the stepper will simply compensate.

If you mess with the throttle stop screw the ECU can't gauge how much fuel to deliver, the system doesn't have a MAF sensor. You'll be up for new TB's.

Pete
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guzziownr
Biondino
Biondino


Posts : 220
Join date : 2013-12-23

PostSubject: Re: More idle issues   Fri Jun 17, 2016 5:54 pm

Don't touch the sacred screw!

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Charlie J
Sfregiato
Sfregiato


Posts : 435
Join date : 2014-10-22
Age : 56

PostSubject: Re: More idle issues   Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:31 pm

Marktjoliver, DONT TOUCH THE STOP SCREW. How much vertical movement is there when you try to wriggle the throttle butterfly shafts at the underneath of the t/bs? When you had the t/bs off the bike I assume you looked through them. Was there a notable difference in the clearance around the butterflys? Any shiny spots in the t/b bores ? How much side to side movement in the linkage rod is there if you move it from left to right without moving the butterflys?
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marktjoliver
Montanarolo
Montanarolo


Posts : 21
Join date : 2015-07-16
Age : 52

PostSubject: Re: More idle issues   Sat Jun 18, 2016 2:23 am

thx all, the screw will remain untouched. When i had the TB,s apart there was some shiny spots where the butterfly opens will remove again and check clearance and post photos. The linkage rod is ok with no undue play. Why do the revs drop when i push lightly on the linkage rod?
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paulbrice
Tanabuso
Tanabuso


Posts : 91
Join date : 2015-01-04

PostSubject: Re: More idle issues   Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:23 am

It affects it because you are pushing harder against the stop which :
- fractionally alters the TPS
- fractionally closes the throttle plates (like squeezing throttle closed)
- and probably wiggles the throttle plate in it's bearings which probably also do the 2 things above.
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marktjoliver
Montanarolo
Montanarolo


Posts : 21
Join date : 2015-07-16
Age : 52

PostSubject: Re: More idle issues   Sun Jun 19, 2016 1:15 pm

Photo time, there is some wear at the butterflys please advise if this is excessive.

thx mark[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]" />[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]" />[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]" />[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]" />[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]" />
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Charlie J
Sfregiato
Sfregiato


Posts : 435
Join date : 2014-10-22
Age : 56

PostSubject: Re: More idle issues   Sun Jun 19, 2016 8:19 pm

With the throttles shut how much vertical movement is there.? What do they look like when held up to the light with throttles shut?
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PostSubject: Re: More idle issues   Today at 4:47 am

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