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 Inner plug removal

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ghezzi
Fra Cristoforo
Fra Cristoforo


Posts : 1694
Join date : 2014-05-22
Age : 59

PostSubject: Inner plug removal   Sat May 14, 2016 6:43 pm

Bellagio (and other 2 valvers) have twin plug heads.
The inner plug NGK PMR8B doesn't have enough clearance for a normal 16mm plug socket to fit down the tunnel between the fins.
The factory tool kit has a tube spanner that measures 21mm OD across the points of the hex, parts of the tunnel appear to be less than 21mm ID.

Any tips, options or knowledge of a special tool before I rip the heads off.
Got the inner plug of R/H cylinder marginally loose, after I hammered the plug socket down. Not happy with this method Jan!

Or do I rip off heads, machine the tunnel between the fins to a bigger diameter, so any plug socket will fit ............................
then port and polish ...................... measure squish and adjust with copper head gaskets.

Mr. Roper, advice please.
Bella still has blow by into the air box, leaves a little drip puddle after every ride. I have your sump baffle and keep oil level below this.
I suspect glazed bores from soft cock run in by original owner. Re-ring and hone?
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Pete Roper
GRiSO
GRiSO


Posts : 3779
Join date : 2013-05-29
Age : 59

PostSubject: Re: Inner plug removal   Sat May 14, 2016 6:46 pm

Wayne, I'll reply to this a bit later but have you got a spare arrest or gizmo in the main breather pipe?

Ground down socket should fit plug but walls get very thin.

Pete
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ghezzi
Fra Cristoforo
Fra Cristoforo


Posts : 1694
Join date : 2014-05-22
Age : 59

PostSubject: Re: Inner plug removal   Sat May 14, 2016 6:49 pm

No extra gauze or filters fitted inside breather tubes.

And just when I was looking for an excuse to pull my engine apart, you give me the simple easy method of fixing the problem.
Fire Truck!
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wardentm
Nibbio
Nibbio


Posts : 516
Join date : 2015-05-16
Age : 64

PostSubject: Re: Inner plug removal   Sat May 14, 2016 6:53 pm

Hi Ghez
I have a 06 1100 GRiSO and had the same issue ....
I just found a long normal socket that fitted the plug and kept grinding the outside until if fitted ...
It took some time and a lot of grinding but I got there in the end ...
Then I just cracked the plug and then tightened it, undid it a bit more, then tightened it up again, and on and on until it came out ok.
Once done the socket is ready for next time, a Guzzi socket
Good luck with it, do not force the socket onto the plug, keep grinding till it fits as it should.
Cheers
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ghezzi
Fra Cristoforo
Fra Cristoforo


Posts : 1694
Join date : 2014-05-22
Age : 59

PostSubject: Re: Inner plug removal   Sat May 14, 2016 7:43 pm

All done.
Had a premature go and cracked the porcelain on one plug ................... more grinding, ok.

Thanks to my dear departed Dad who left me his 2" belt sander.
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bahamazoo
Don Abbondio
Don Abbondio


Posts : 163
Join date : 2015-08-09
Age : 52

PostSubject: Re: Inner plug removal   Sat May 14, 2016 7:47 pm

Hey Ghezzi
the Sport has the same issue, with bits of frame defying direct access to the narrow plug tunnel...
I went to supercreep and got an unbranded 16mm thin walled socket for a couple o bucks that fit straight in, no grinding required!
A few of wraps of leecy tape to hold it on to an extension and as Trev says, just crack the plug and then remove 'tool'. Any transverse pressure on the plug will lead to drama, so push a length of plastic (stolen from the fish tank pump) tubing over the top of the plug and use that to rotate and unscrew offending plug.
Replace is, obviously, the reverse, using the tube to spin the plug in as much as possible before getting in there with steel.
steady steady as she goes...
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bahamazoo
Don Abbondio
Don Abbondio


Posts : 163
Join date : 2015-08-09
Age : 52

PostSubject: Re: Inner plug removal   Sat May 14, 2016 7:48 pm

doh, a few minutes too late Embarassed
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Charlie J
Sfregiato
Sfregiato


Posts : 433
Join date : 2014-10-22
Age : 56

PostSubject: Re: Inner plug removal   Sun May 15, 2016 12:18 am

Gday Wayne. Glad to see you got the plug socket sorted. If you suspect glazed bores are causing blow -by have you done a leak down and compression test? I thought Nickasil bores were a bit harder than most to be honed,but more than happy to be corrected with that. How many Ks on the motor?
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Pete Roper
GRiSO
GRiSO


Posts : 3779
Join date : 2013-05-29
Age : 59

PostSubject: Re: Inner plug removal   Sun May 15, 2016 12:33 am

Only thing that will touch Nicasil is a boron ball hone. Just a few quick sweeps to bust up the glaze is all that would be required but I'd do the spark arrest or trick first.

Pete
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ghezzi
Fra Cristoforo
Fra Cristoforo


Posts : 1694
Join date : 2014-05-22
Age : 59

PostSubject: Re: Inner plug removal   Sun May 15, 2016 1:29 am

Yeah, tell me more about that Pete.
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Grisonut
GRiSO
GRiSO


Posts : 1015
Join date : 2014-01-02

PostSubject: Re: Inner plug removal   Sun May 15, 2016 8:05 am

A little late to the show but yeah, grounded down socket is the deal.
And keep the bitch in your little tool pouch from now on. lol
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jeremyb
Grignapoco
Grignapoco


Posts : 101
Join date : 2013-12-19
Age : 61

PostSubject: Re: Inner plug removal   Sun May 15, 2016 4:18 pm

MG Cycle sells a thin-walled plug socket:
Thin walled plug socket
Shows 'sold out' right now, but was $36US
Expensive, but worked great on my GRiSO 1100.
If anyone wants to borrow it, they're welcome to !. Shipping to the bottom of the world will be kinda expensive tho....
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wardentm
Nibbio
Nibbio


Posts : 516
Join date : 2015-05-16
Age : 64

PostSubject: Re: Inner plug removal   Sun May 15, 2016 4:40 pm

USPS, tell me about e'm
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Pete Roper
GRiSO
GRiSO


Posts : 3779
Join date : 2013-05-29
Age : 59

PostSubject: Re: Inner plug removal   Sun May 15, 2016 4:45 pm

Wayne, Bellagios have always had a bit of a problem with breathing out oil. Whe exactly I'm not sure but the factory made several attempts at fixes.

The first one was reconfiguring the breather pipe to the condensor. Early bikes just had a comparatively straight pipe that ran from the timing chest up to the condensor. The pipe got changed to one with a sort os 'S' bend in it. That didn't fix it completely, although it helped. The next step was to use one of those trail bike spark arrestors which look like a sort of loosley packed Brillo pad that slips into the end of the exhaust but in this case you slip it into the breather pipe. It just acts as a 'Pre-condensor' for the particulate oil in the vented gas which then will hopefully drain back down into the timing chest and helps prevent the over-taxing of the stock box.

The breather system on the 'B' is essentially nearly identical to that on late model Cali 1100's. The problem is that Calis tend not to spend a lot of time near redline so the blow-by and windage from the crank are not as severe as on the Bellagio which, as you know, really prefers to be held wide open until it hits the rev limiter!

Pete
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moto
Carlotto
Carlotto


Posts : 29
Join date : 2014-07-03

PostSubject: Re: Inner plug removal   Mon May 16, 2016 8:44 am

jeremyb wrote:
MG Cycle sells a thin-walled plug socket:
Thin walled plug socket
Shows 'sold out' right now, but was $36US
Expensive, but worked great on my GRiSO 1100.
If anyone wants to borrow it, they're welcome to !. Shipping to the bottom of the world will be kinda expensive tho....

This is a better bet for those willing to pay for a ready-made solution: the Motion Pro 08-0239. It costs less ($21 US dollars or so), has a wobble-extension great for getting clearance, and can be driven with an open-end wrench or a socket. Works great on my GRiSO 1100. Available widely, including on Australian ebay, for 27.50 AU dollars (second link).

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PostSubject: Re: Inner plug removal   Today at 12:46 am

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