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 Matris Fork Cartridges / DONE

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waterbottle
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PostSubject: Matris Fork Cartridges / DONE   Sun May 15, 2016 5:21 am

Who has upgraded to the Matris Fork Cartridges ?
What Kit was fitted ? I believe there is 2 sorts available. An FS12 S with 20 mm pistons, and a FS12 R kit that has a 25 mm piston.
Q : Do they both fit a GRiSO fork.
Q : Is the S for street use , R for Race use ( heavier valving ? )
What kind of $ for a kit. Beetle did a good write up on a "how to change fork seals " which was easy to follow. So between Uzidzit's re-valve write up and Beetles, one should find the process doable with some ingenuity regarding tooling.  Replacing the Fork seals at the same time would make sense , yes ?


Last edited by waterbottle on Sat Jun 18, 2016 11:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Grisonut
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PostSubject: Re: Matris Fork Cartridges / DONE   Sun May 15, 2016 8:08 am

Since you're in there, might as well...
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Matris Fork Cartridges / DONE   Sun May 15, 2016 1:46 pm

The FS12S kit is for the GRiSO. Now that I've had the forks apart I'd be tempted to do it myself. I would add that when changing the cartridges you might want to crack the bottom cap screw before you pull the top cap off. Cost me $1499 fitted. IIRC, at the time I was looking, the best or price I could get (shipped) was about $1430. For the extra $69, I couldn't be arsed doing it myself.

I think the S & R designate different fork models, not application.


Oh yeah, do change the seals while your at it.





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waterbottle
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PostSubject: Re: Matris Fork Cartridges / DONE   Tue May 17, 2016 4:42 pm

What weight fork oil are you using Beetle Question
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Matris Fork Cartridges / DONE   Tue May 17, 2016 4:57 pm

5W. 135mm from top.
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waterbottle
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PostSubject: Re: Matris Fork Cartridges / DONE   Sun Jun 19, 2016 12:05 am

Got my Kit last week via Pete / Moto Moda and it's a lovely thing.

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Ghezzi was coming past on his way home to Brisbane and stayed a day to help build a fork tool.

Matris kit going in, tool for Showa cartridges on the bench
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Compression valve Port in lower fork leg, oil comes out of the hole and returns via the port exposed by the machining of the seat.
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The Compression valve needles old and new
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ghezzi
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PostSubject: Re: Matris Fork Cartridges / DONE   Sun Jun 19, 2016 12:59 am

This is the full array of manufactured parts that took a day to make. Ron doesn't want you to know how clever he is. Smart Bastard actually.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]" />

Short tube next to stubby has small allen key welded to it, rubber hose slid over for locator base of fork.
Short tube welded vertically on end of small RHS.
Nut welded to booker (long threaded) rod, which passes thru large square washer, which in turn is welded to end of larger RHS.
Long tube nut welded to small square washer, which is welded to end of smaller RHS.
Slip it inside and start winding the long rod.
Four small solid square bars are welded to outside of large RHD, as locators for the 2 steel plates.
Plate on left will have the 2 tube nuts welded in situ. The bolts have knurled heads and turned spigots to locate in the holes in the stock spring pre-load tube.

Wind in the long rod, compress and hold the spring, undo the nuts.

The second plate was manufactured to suit the Matris cartridge and spring pre-load system, for re-assembly.

Wish I could have stayed another day to complete the job and help set sag etc.
Had to go for a 600km drive ....................... in the rain.
Monsoons are here Marg!

Oh, Stubby was for inspiration, ................................ and burn therapy.
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waterbottle
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PostSubject: Re: Matris Fork Cartridges / DONE   Sun Jun 19, 2016 1:43 am

Ghezzi ........... " and burn therapy."
Oh yes, Must remember things stay hot for quite a while after being welded Rolling Eyes Evil or Very Mad
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Matris Fork Cartridges / DONE   Sun Jun 19, 2016 3:15 am

Tops! Those tools are excellent Ron. Makes my ratchet contraption look pretty ordinary. cheers






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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Matris Fork Cartridges / DONE   Sun Jun 19, 2016 3:39 am

In my ongoing and probably a bit sad and OCD pursuit of suspension nirvana I've just purchased a set of suspension off a TV-4, these are the Sachs units now used on the 'Cooking' model 'Prillas. For $900 I get a set taken off a TV-4 at 1,000km, forks and shock, (Which will be going on the bay of fleas.) but as soon as I can the forks will be getting a set of these.

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This means I'll have four different foek options to evaluate. Bit sad really I suppose...... Very Happy

Pete
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nev
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PostSubject: Re: Matris Fork Cartridges / DONE   Sun Jun 19, 2016 5:55 pm

Good job on manufacturing the fork tools , as said else where " there's some clever barstards here "
Seeing the pictures of new and old needles for valves , how could the original ever work well it's either open or shut !
Nev.
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boxerscott
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PostSubject: Re: Matris Fork Cartridges / DONE   Tue Jun 21, 2016 3:05 pm

I aint got em, they look nice though, are you guys  racing against Casey Stoner ? are your roads really that bad? or are you just a load of fat bxstxrds bottoming out everywhere bounce Wink Are the stock ones as shite as the flat tappets?

Oh no! more expense!
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waterbottle
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PostSubject: Re: Matris Fork Cartridges / DONE   Tue Jun 21, 2016 3:28 pm

Boxer : While I found the stock suspension adequate for touring, it's quite shite when pushed hard. With the fork spring preload wound down hard and compression damping almost screwed all the way in, under hard braking mine will Jack it's self Down until the forks are bottoming out Shocked ( I may have had the Rebound screwed in too far ) It gets the sphincter puckering at an alarming rate  Laughing
Springs are too soft
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Matris Fork Cartridges / DONE   Tue Jun 21, 2016 4:00 pm

Boxer, if you actually rode your GRiSO instead of bitching, you'd know exactly why we do these things.





.
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ghezzi
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PostSubject: Re: Matris Fork Cartridges / DONE   Tue Jun 21, 2016 4:42 pm

YES! Our roads are that bad.
While I don't classify myself as a fat bastard I can tell you I'm on the level, coz my bubble is in the middle. Embarassed

If your roads are billiard table smooth you will get a comfortable ride, but in the twisties your suspenders will sag, lacking ground clearance and running wide. You could brew a coffee while waiting for the pig to turn.

Over here, with stock suspension I would ride 100 mile from home and be so stuffed, I'd need a rest before riding home. But after building "compliant" suspension I can ride all day, as a consequence of now having "proper" suspension, I can also ride very fast on those same shit roads, and be safer at the same time.

Kentucky Derby v Grand National Steeplechase, horses for courses.









Or you could ride like a pussy!
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nev
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PostSubject: Re: Matris Fork Cartridges / DONE   Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:22 pm

I was shocked to see Ghezzi had a video of me riding,
Boxer, for me the I think the GRiSO is " the one " (true love) but the bigger bumps just jar the daylights
Out of me ,so one does something about it.
I have just put a matris rear k shock in and have only done a 15km up and back the road and immediately
Thought "bugger done the wrong thing should have spent the money on the front end"
Nev
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PostSubject: Re: Matris Fork Cartridges / DONE   Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:31 pm

Ha Ha!
Nev, that's what happens when you fix the bit that seems the worst, first.
Now the rear is so good it shows up the inadequacies of the front.

You will soon reach Nirvana.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Matris Fork Cartridges / DONE   Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:11 pm

Showas are actually a damn fine fork. The problem with the GRiSO is that they are under-sprung and over damped and the valving is shithouse. That's the reason why we bugger about with suspension so much.

Most Guzzi boards are filled with people who obsess about horsepower. Look at the clowns who spend their whole time bragging their munty old Grisos make 110-115 RWHP. Apart from the fact you won't do it unless you start doing radical stuff with cams who gives a shit? Nobody rides around at WFO all day but most importantly it doesn't matter a pig's freckle how much power your bike makes if you can't get it to the road and your bike skips around like a faery on crack!

If you want more power? buy a Tuono! They're awesome! But getting the suspension right transforms even the the most abject pig into a butterfly!

I at the moment have just got Laurie to set up my Matris cartridges and I already have a Matris R on the back, (It needs a slightly lighter spring but other than that its great!) but I also have a set of Ohlins I'm adapting to fit my yokes and finally a set of Sach's off an RSV4 that I'm going to have Laurie work his magic on and if needs be I'll fit a set of Andreani piston kits to. All n search of the 'Best' system for me.

Apart from anything else, as Wayne says, riding a poorly suspended bike is exhausting. I also now have some increasingly problematic arthritis issues which are greatly exacerbated by both cold and jarring caused by poor roads. Since riding is my major source of pleasure and entertainment I'll do practically anything to make my rides more comfortable and handle better. Getting old really does suck!

Our roads too are, compared to all but the very worst goat tracks in the UK, absolutely abysmal. Queensland roads are even worse than ours! It may seem that we are a bit obsessed with suspension but there are good reasons, especially on a great fat pig like a GRiSO!

Pete
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waterbottle
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PostSubject: Re: Matris Fork Cartridges / DONE   Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:32 pm

ghezzi wrote:
YES! Our roads are that bad.
While I don't classify myself as a fat bastard I can tell you I'm on the level, coz my bubble is in the middle. Embarassed
I've never thought of you as a Bastard Wayne  Laughing
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Matris Fork Cartridges / DONE   Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:45 pm

Your kidneys with stock suspension:

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You kidneys with well sorted suspension:

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ghezzi
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PostSubject: Re: Matris Fork Cartridges / DONE   Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:01 pm

waterbottle wrote:

I've never thought of you as a Bastard Wayne  Laughing

I already knew that.
Love,
Petal.
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waterbottle
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PostSubject: Re: Matris Fork Cartridges / DONE   Tue Jun 21, 2016 11:51 pm

You missed the point Ghezzi, RE Read my post, including your quote
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PostSubject: Re: Matris Fork Cartridges / DONE   Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:03 am

I got it the first time, you FAT prick! Razz


Last edited by ghezzi on Wed Jun 22, 2016 1:16 am; edited 1 time in total
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waterbottle
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PostSubject: Re: Matris Fork Cartridges / DONE   Wed Jun 22, 2016 12:06 am

TEE HEE What a Face
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boxerscott
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PostSubject: Re: Matris Fork Cartridges / DONE   Wed Jun 22, 2016 4:32 am

waterbottle wrote:
Boxer : While I found the stock suspension adequate for touring, it's quite shite when pushed hard. With the fork spring preload wound down hard and compression damping almost screwed all the way in, under hard braking mine will Jack it's self Down until the forks are bottoming out Shocked ( I may have had the Rebound screwed in too far ) It gets the sphincter puckering at an alarming rate  Laughing
Springs are too soft
That`s interesting, I may have some adjustments to do then. I am pretty sure my bike is as it left the factory. I will not be pushing it hard (I say that now) cos it just does not feel like that kind of bike sat on it in my garage, as I have not ridden it yet I can not say but we definitely do not want to be bouncing and wallowing about on our two up Spain tour. Sounds like I will have to do some research on setting it up for we go. Our lass ain`t a salad dodger and we do travel light, hopefully there will be a setting already there for us. study
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