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 Opinion about Engine tuning

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hirnkrampf
Carlotto
Carlotto


Posts : 31
Join date : 2016-05-03

PostSubject: Opinion about Engine tuning   Mon May 16, 2016 1:43 am

Hi folks,

During my research about tuning and optimization measures I stumbled upon several shops that provide an engine tuning which includes reworking the cylinders and replacing the valves etc. Two of the most renown in Germany seem to be these: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] and [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Not sure I can translate it to the correct english terms, but let me try:

- dynamic crank-drive balancing and equilibration of piston and rod
- same for the flywheel mass
- custom camshaft and valve springs
- rework of the combustion chambers, cylinder-heads and pistons
- Rework the cylinder-heads for double ignition??? --> wtf? does the stock engine not ignite when needed?? sounds creepy

All in all this would add up to about 1000 Euros. Not sure this is justified at all, but I sure would like to give my GRiSO some more linear torque, cause I am more of a cruising type. And also want to have several more decades of fun with her, too Very Happy (recently decided that I will keep her for a looong time)

Can anyone tell me if this is just voodoo and I should better spend that cash for booze and ladies? Or did anyone of you actually do sth like that and can give a short feedback if it was worth it?

Said

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beetle
GRiSO
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PostSubject: Re: Opinion about Engine tuning   Mon May 16, 2016 2:04 am

How many more horses did they promise and what type of torque curve? €1000 is a lot of money. If you're just after a linear torque curve, it can be done for a lot less €.




.
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hirnkrampf
Carlotto
Carlotto


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Join date : 2016-05-03

PostSubject: Re: Opinion about Engine tuning   Mon May 16, 2016 2:32 am

Well,

here's what they claim to achieve for a 1200 Sport:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

with the red line being the stock version, the green one with an optimized mapping and pipe and the blue one with all they have to offer. No clue if this is valid and also applies to my 8V.

What do you suggest to try in terms of more linearity and cruising pleasure?
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Pete Roper
GRiSO
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PostSubject: Re: Opinion about Engine tuning   Mon May 16, 2016 2:44 am

Twin plug ignition on the Cali 14 is mainly for emmisions and to help minimise weird burn patterns that cause 'Surging' at lower engine speeds. This is particularly needed as combustion chambers get wider but the 1200 is obviously still within the limits of acceptability as we don't get 'Surging' on a properly tuned 1200.

There are many people and firms who promise all sorts of bullshit without having the first understanding of how the 8V Guzzi engine works and therefore how to get the best out of it. While there may be gains to be had by going down this sort of expensive and to my mind slightly dangerous path there is an awful lot that can be gained simply by tuning the bike correctly and mapping it properly.

Given the fact that the shop who rollerised it managed to fuck it up to the point the bike broke down on the way home I'll bet a bus full of beehives it isn't tuned properly and no amount of money poured into something will make it work if it ain't tuned right!

Get it tuned by someone who knows what they are doing or learn to do it yourself, (Few bikes are easier to tune, really!) and get your head around Guzzidiag and for $100AU, (60€?) you can have a machine transformed.

Pete
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Opinion about Engine tuning   Mon May 16, 2016 3:20 am

€88. Very Happy

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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Opinion about Engine tuning   Mon May 16, 2016 3:58 am

I stands, (Actually 'slumps' would be nearer to the point.) corrected.

Boy they do a nice, hoppy IPA at this place! (hic!)

Pete
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hirnkrampf
Carlotto
Carlotto


Posts : 31
Join date : 2016-05-03

PostSubject: Re: Opinion about Engine tuning   Mon May 16, 2016 4:00 am

Wow, thanks for the feedback. Yeah I read about the GuzziDiag stuff. Are you sure that an IT Geek and extreme combustion nitwit like me should really touch that stuff? What if I brick my ECU? Or that little spark when plugging into the OBD port ignites a little splatter of gas on my tank and I go up in flames shouting your names in agonie?

Of course the idea of being able to tweak my bike with just the computer and a few wires is extremely tempting for someone who does almost everything with keyboard and mouse and knows so little about combustion and engines.
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hirnkrampf
Carlotto
Carlotto


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PostSubject: Re: Opinion about Engine tuning   Mon May 16, 2016 4:00 am

What is an IPA? And why is it hoppy?
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Opinion about Engine tuning   Mon May 16, 2016 4:05 am

India Pale Ale! It's a beer! It has lots of hops in it! Very bitter and aromatic!

If I can work Guzzidiag anybody can. I'm older than dirt for heavens sakes! I don't know a computer from a bar of soap and shout a lot! I've worked it out!

Pete
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Opinion about Engine tuning   Mon May 16, 2016 4:27 am

hirnkrampf wrote:
What if I brick my ECU?


You can't. Believe me, I've tried.  Suspect



Quote :
Or that little spark when plugging into the OBD port ignites a little splatter of gas on my tank and I go up in flames shouting your names in agonie?


If that happens, please take photos.  cheers



Pete Roper wrote:
I don't know a computer from a bar of soap and shout a lot!


I can vouch for that. Razz




.
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ghezzi
Fra Cristoforo
Fra Cristoforo


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Age : 59

PostSubject: Re: Opinion about Engine tuning   Mon May 16, 2016 4:47 am

Said, you mentioned in your other thread about adding a pipe and seat etc. I understand that your bike is seen as a piece of art and you want it to look good. However, it all becomes a moot point if your bike rides like a piece of shit.

More power you say, pointless if you can't put it to the ground.
Straight line riding is boring to me, cornering is much more funnera! The only place I've actually craved more power was on a race track, and my asthmatic 2V 936cc engine only has 76 ponies.

GRiSO is a great starting point, just needs a little fettling to sweeten the ride. I have ridden a Beetle mapped beast and they are great with a flat torque straight (not a curve) of 80ft/lbs from 3,000 to 8,000RPM.

After that, a little suspension work for better compliance for a greater ride on rough roads. Then you can keep the power on instead of backing off for the bumps.

If you want power, it's cheaper to buy an R1. Evil or Very Mad
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Opinion about Engine tuning   Mon May 16, 2016 6:09 am

ghezzi wrote:
Said, you mentioned in your other thread about adding a pipe and seat etc. I understand that your bike is seen as a piece of art and you want it to look good. However, it all becomes a moot point if your bike rides like a piece of shit.

If you want power, it's cheaper to buy an R1. Evil or Very Mad

Or a crashed TV-4 and just set it up for track days........Oh I loves me some V4-Tuono........(Whimper!) Very Happy

Pete
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hirnkrampf
Carlotto
Carlotto


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PostSubject: Re: Opinion about Engine tuning   Mon May 16, 2016 6:32 am

Hehe, seem to have touched a sensitive area here Very Happy

Don't get me wrong. The bike sure has enough power for me! It's not more power I am after, but rather the overall smoothness of nice forward momentum also in the lower rpm range (3-5k) From about 5k on I am more than satisfied with what I get. Actually we are really talking about a luxury issue or rather a non-issue here. The bike rides fine and I would not swap her for anything else on the market. And also I kinda adapted to riding her with more rpms also when cruising. Just took her out for an hour and enjoyed every minute of the ride!

Admittedly though, I thought about selling when I went through that trouble with the "rollerization". However, that was more due to the lousy service you get from MG than for the bike itself. They really got me angry there. Thing is, with a BMW they would have rolled out the red carpet if any such thing had happened and I would probably also have gotten a  substitute bike for the 4 months or so the whole stuff took. Apart from the fact that the parts would probably have been on stock and the repairs concluded after a week or so instead of months.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Opinion about Engine tuning   Mon May 16, 2016 7:11 am

Sorry? Where have you 'Touched a sensitive area'? All I saw was people offering you advice on stuff to try *Before* sinking a bunch of dough in unproven snake oil! Your choice though, go fer yer life.

Pete

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hirnkrampf
Carlotto
Carlotto


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PostSubject: Re: Opinion about Engine tuning   Mon May 16, 2016 8:07 am

Ok let me rephrase: "an area of increased interest " Smile

I had my doubts about that treatment that's why I asked. I will follow your advice and not apply that snake oil Very Happy
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Steak
L'Innominato
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PostSubject: Re: Opinion about Engine tuning   Mon May 16, 2016 9:48 am

This is an internet forum. Thick skins are preferable to thin.

Remember, this is an international conflagration that sometimes assumes mastery and nuance of the English language (not to mention odd variants - Canadian, Aussie, Welsh, Sweet Tea, Yankee, etc)

Y'all be cool.

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

2012 MOTO GUZZI GRiSO 1200SE

2013 MOTO GUZZI STELVIO 1200NTX - Orange Blossom Special
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beetle
GRiSO
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PostSubject: Re: Opinion about Engine tuning   Mon May 16, 2016 1:40 pm

scratch
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ghezzi
Fra Cristoforo
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PostSubject: Re: Opinion about Engine tuning   Mon May 16, 2016 3:00 pm

Well said Said.
If you are keyboard proficient then all you need to achieve your hearts desire of a smooth torquey easy to ride pleasure craft, is $40 dollars worth of cables from Lonetec and a "Beetle" map.

If all your roads are billiard table smooth, then stock suspension will be sufficient, otherwise, talk to me yo.
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bioman
Tiradritto
Tiradritto


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PostSubject: Re: Opinion about Engine tuning   Mon May 16, 2016 4:24 pm

Ghezzi, also related to your other post re suspension: what would be your advise to improve performance and riding pleasure for an average rider on curvy roads that are not "billiard table smooth"? Please take into account budget constraints....

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Grisonut
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PostSubject: Re: Opinion about Engine tuning   Mon May 16, 2016 5:17 pm

hirnkrampf wrote:
..............Thing is, with a BMW they would have rolled out the red carpet if any such thing had happened and I would probably also have gotten a  substitute bike for the 4 months or so the whole stuff took. Apart from the fact that the parts would probably have been on stock and the repairs concluded after a week or so instead of months.

I wish...
Here in the US, you definitely don't get a red carpet and a substitute bike for 4 months?? Riiiiiight...sure, and they'll pay for your gas too eh? Laughing
As for parts being in stock, if you only need an air filter, oil and a couple of spark plugs you'll be OK but anything like a fuel pump, throttle cables, parts for the final drive, you're shit out of luck. Don't ask me how I know...
And not only they don't have that in stock but it takes about 4 business days to get it. lol
Not impressed with BMW here in the South US...
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FrogGuzzi
Montanarolo
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Age : 41

PostSubject: Re: Opinion about Engine tuning   Tue May 17, 2016 10:29 am

Hi Guys,
confirmation from Frog land, a full service, upload Beetle map, reset TPS, throttle body sync, CO Trim tweak, my bike has gone form a bag of bolts, that shakes ya' nuts off, and a bitch to ride... to a raging linear power delivery monster, that will pull like a tug from 2k all they way up to red line.
The guys a right, buy the cables, learn how to use Guzzi'Diag, it's a piece of cake, seriously.
Massive thanks to Mark for his help, and knowledge.
Steve

Total cost of operation :
30€ for Lonelec cables
10€ for homemade throttle balance gizmo.
1h of my time.
Best 40€ ever spent.
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hirnkrampf
Carlotto
Carlotto


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PostSubject: Re: Opinion about Engine tuning   Tue May 17, 2016 10:57 am

Well ok, maybe I exaggerated a bit about the BMW service Very Happy

Ok FrogGuzzi, get it. Thanks for the feedback. No snake oil for me Very Happy I'll definitely look into GuzziDiag. Seems to actually be doable, even for me. But what's that Beetle map you are referring to? Weren't the classic Beetles Boxer engines? Do you think the Termi Pipe will make a difference when it's attached?

About the suspension: I did some reading about spring and dampers Very Happy So I kinda get the concept. Not sure if its worth the effort though, as most roads are indeed ok. What I definitely notice after reading a a few posts on this board is to have become more observant during my riding. We'll see Very Happy
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f-man
Grignapoco
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PostSubject: Re: Opinion about Engine tuning   Tue May 17, 2016 11:23 am

Moin;


schau einfach mal auf [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] nach. Dort bekommst Du das passende Mapping für Dein Moped. Für den Termi sollte das Serienmap in der rollerised Variante gut passen. Für GuzziDiag kannst Du Dich auch auf Deutsch auf [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] einlesen. Dort ist eine Bezugsquelle für ein funktionierendes Kabel und die Möglichkeit zum Download der Software gegeben. Das Ganze funktioniert bei mir recht gut. Bedenke auch, die ganzen in Deutschland gehypten Tuner kochen ebenfalls nur mit Wasser.


Gruß

Sven
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Papa Lazarou
Grignapoco
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PostSubject: Re: Opinion about Engine tuning   Tue May 17, 2016 11:26 am

hirnkrampf wrote:
Hi folks,

During my research about tuning and optimization measures I stumbled upon several shops that provide an engine tuning which includes reworking the cylinders and replacing t........................................................................................

Can anyone tell me if this is just voodoo and I should better spend that cash for booze and ladies? Or did anyone of you actually do sth like that and can give a short feedback if it was worth it?

Said


I have a Honda Super Blackbird CBR1100XX for sale. It'll piss all over a GRiSO and is an amazing tourer.


I'm keeping the GRiSO.
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Grisonut
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PostSubject: Re: Opinion about Engine tuning   Tue May 17, 2016 4:59 pm

Putain les mecs...parlez Anglais bordel!!! Laughing Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Opinion about Engine tuning   Today at 8:26 pm

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