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 Another Flat Tappet failure

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Steve Waller
Carlotto
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Join date : 2014-07-30

PostSubject: Another Flat Tappet failure   Thu Jul 14, 2016 1:52 am

Not on a GRiSO but on my 2011 Stelvio.  Noticed the exhaust valve clearances had opened up to 0.4mm since last checking so pulled the cam box to find this :-
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Pete Roper
GRiSO
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Age : 59

PostSubject: Re: Another Flat Tappet failure   Thu Jul 14, 2016 4:21 am

I sympathise but anything I could say I've said before......
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wardentm
Nibbio
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PostSubject: Re: Another Flat Tappet failure   Thu Jul 14, 2016 4:45 am

Boy, that cam lobe has dug into that flattie, hate to imagine the damage the fines have caused as they have gone round and round ........
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paulbrice
Tanabuso
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PostSubject: Re: Another Flat Tappet failure   Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:40 am

Hey Steve, sorry to see that but as Pete says it is as certain as night turns to day that flat tappets go to rat sh*t...includes replacement flat ones...Mine were even worse than yours on second set failure but after rollers it is perfect and 'fines' don't seem to have destroyed anything that I can feel/hear/see but I did duck out opening bearings.

Presume like me you are doing it yourself and no warranty cover ? Let me know if you want me to send 'my experience' of doing the job following Pete's videos and posts mainly but with a few things I learned as well - word doc with commentary and pictures Kit 'B' plus doing valve shims so head off. First thing is checking what bits you need & if the valves need shims or not :-)
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Karman
Montanarolo
Montanarolo


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PostSubject: Re: Another Flat Tappet failure   Thu Jul 14, 2016 11:44 pm

How many miles were on this Steve?

I have my GRiSO in with the dealer for examination at the moment, I may hear something today. It's a 2011/2012 plate with 13k miles on it, and Guzzi have been less than helpful, simply telling me that there is no recall on my engine, but if anything occurs to take it to the dealer.
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Steve Waller
Carlotto
Carlotto


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Join date : 2014-07-30

PostSubject: Re: Another Flat Tappet failure   Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:32 am

Sorry for the slow response - been away for a few days. The bike has done 75k miles. Tappets already replaced once under warranty at 20k. No chance of a warranty claim - don't even have a Guzzi dealer in Northern Ireland, so have ordered a kit "A" from TLM and will be fitting it myself and keeping my fingers crossed that the bottom end is OK.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Another Flat Tappet failure   Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:42 am

If you need advice or help I'm going to be in Northern Ireland in about a month. I am on pain of death from Jude that I don't do motorbike stuff, (My cardio-vascular system is giving me shit and I need to stress less.) but we'll be staying up at Loch Ard and dining with Dave and his family so feel free to come and pester us if you fancy a beer.

Pete

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Steve Waller
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PostSubject: Re: Another Flat Tappet failure   Wed Jul 20, 2016 12:39 pm

Cheers Pete, Dave mentioned you would be over. Be great to meet up so will ask David to keep me informed. I may actually be away myself on the 21st August though at a Guzzi club do over in England, hopefully on the repaired Stelvio but otherwise probably on my Convert. To be honest, the stuff you have put up on the web has been amazingly helpful already.
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Steve Waller
Carlotto
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PostSubject: Re: Another Flat Tappet failure   Sat Jul 30, 2016 1:43 am

Right had side exhaust tappet and cam nearly as bad as the left side [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Do you think the oil pump will be done for Pete?

Another question, what is the best way to go about back flushing the oil cooler and lines?
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Another Flat Tappet failure   Sat Jul 30, 2016 2:29 am

(Sigh!)

Look, I wish I could give a categorical, cast iron reliable, yay or nay on this. Quite simply I can't!

I've had bikes that have damage as bad as your 'Bad' Tappet on all four! I drop the sump and clean out what I can, back flush the oil cooler, rollerise them and they are whisper quiet!

Alternatively you have bikes like mine, Mark III's and Ralf's that showed far less damage and their engines were toast! There seems to be no rhyme or reason to it.

My advice, which is worth exactly what you pay for it, is drop the sump and back flush the cooler, (Take it off and wash it out from the delivery side with clean kero in a parts washer the. Blow it out with compressed air.) clean the pick up screens, put in a new filter, fill it with oil after rollerisation, pump pressure up by spinning the motor on the starter with the plugs out. Stick the plugs in, fire it up and hope!

As I've said before I've had three failures in a 'VERY LARGE NUMBER of rollerisations. With two of those it really just seems to have been dumb luck!

Yes, if I wanted to I could pontificate, (I'm good at that! Very Happy) but at the end of the day you're playing Russian Roulette and I don't know which of the chambers are loaded. Do the best you can and hope! I wish I could be the bearer of better tidings.

Pete


Last edited by Pete Roper on Sat Jul 30, 2016 2:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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Steve Waller
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PostSubject: Re: Another Flat Tappet failure   Sat Jul 30, 2016 2:37 am

Cheers Pete, much appreciated as always
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Another Flat Tappet failure   Sat Jul 30, 2016 2:39 am

Sorry, edited post above so it makes sense! (Tries to pull head out of arse.)

Pete
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Steve Waller
Carlotto
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PostSubject: Re: Another Flat Tappet failure   Mon Aug 08, 2016 4:21 am

Well the roller tappets are in and so far, touch wood, running great.
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rudolf35
Montanarolo
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Posts : 22
Join date : 2016-05-03

PostSubject: Re: Another Flat Tappet failure   Sat Aug 20, 2016 6:15 am

I just finished my "C" kit install, not hard but tedius. Anyway, I did notice one interesting difference between the R and L side, the R was worse than the left. The R side had a nice bald spot in the coating, the L was just a bit lighter in density but "OK".
Just a musing over the whole enigma as to the cause - but then again, it is done so time to ride once the deluge in TX stops.
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techman-001
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PostSubject: Re: Another Flat Tappet failure   Mon Oct 03, 2016 1:29 am

I have just pulled the LH cam box from my 2008 GRiSO 8V, with 35000 km on the odometer. In the words of the immortal Pete Roper "OH what a surprise!"

My thanks to Mr Roper for his awesome Youtube video which I followed.

This is the LH side only, as I haven't pulled the RH cambox and won't until I rollerise this side. I can't feel the wear with my fingernail, ( I can feel 1 thou quite easily), so the wear is very shallow and I doubt that the material removed will cause any harm (famous last words!).
Pics of the flatties, compliments of my el cheapo USB microscope and FreeBSD:-
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

The cams look ok, with a 'watermark' pattern indicating wear, which also can't be felt. Of more concern were the ends of the pushrods which are slightly flat, the worst about 4mm in dia, the best about 2mm. Is this common, does anyone know ?

Here is a picture of the worst one, it's the inlet pushrod, bottom end, which fits inside the follower.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Now once the Indomitable Mr Roper, (thru his assistant Michael) sells me a 'C' Kit, I can get on with it Smile
This isn't a warranty job, I have no owners history (two previous owners I think) , and I don't care, I see it as a aftermarket upgrade to rollers, and a Beetle roller/Agostini Map, ..... oh the awesomeness!!!!.


Cheers, Terry

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Steve Waller
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PostSubject: Re: Another Flat Tappet failure   Mon Oct 03, 2016 4:01 am

Looks like you caught it nice and early Terry at least
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Grisonut
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PostSubject: Re: Another Flat Tappet failure   Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:45 pm

Steve Waller wrote:
Well the roller tappets are in and so far, touch wood, running great.

You probably dodge the bullet then...
Good for you.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Another Flat Tappet failure   Mon Oct 03, 2016 9:18 pm

Don't worry about the pushrods. They're manufactured like that. They are also only supposed to be installed one way up. Irrelevant now though as they all need to be junked.

Pete
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techman-001
Grignapoco
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PostSubject: Re: Another Flat Tappet failure   Tue Oct 04, 2016 2:11 pm

Thanks Pete, yeah I will have two nice new doorstops or paperweights.
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PostSubject: Re: Another Flat Tappet failure   Today at 8:25 pm

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