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 2005 carbed Triumph Thruxton vs GRiSO 1100.

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yrunvs
Don Abbondio
Don Abbondio


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PostSubject: Re: 2005 carbed Triumph Thruxton vs GRiSO 1100.   Fri Aug 05, 2016 7:16 pm

So is it fair to say that all flat tappet bikes will show tappet degradation? And so no matter what the milage the prudent thing to do is to park it (and do not run it) tear it apart to quantify the damage then purchase the appropriate kit (unless I have all maintenance documentation then MG supplies it at no charge)?
Assuming I find a low milage 1200 and purchase it I should expect my costs to be:

1. The price I pay for the cycle.
2. Cost to document degradation.
3. Roller kit.
4. Kit installation.


How much will 2,3 and 4 be?

Just typing this out makes me feel like running away from doing a rollerization as fast as I can.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: 2005 carbed Triumph Thruxton vs GRiSO 1100.   Fri Aug 05, 2016 7:50 pm

OK,

1.) All flatties are doomed. No exceptions.

2.) Somewhere in one of the tech threads there is an embedded video of me pulling the LH cambox off a GRiSO. The video is 13 minutes long. That's all it takes to find out.

3.) Cost of kits varies depending on which one the machine requires. 'C' and 'D' kits, ('D' kit is late Sport 1200 only.) cost substantially more than 'A' and 'B' kits due to more parts being needed.

4.) As with the different price of the kits time for installation varies. 'C' and 'D' kits require the heads to come off and the inlet valves to come out. This adds substantially to the time. Depending on how much damage has occurred it may be necessary to back flush the oil cooler and lines and we almost always drop the sump for a thorough clean out. Bearing in mind that Michael and I have probably done more rollerisations than pretty much anyone else at a guess we can turn over a 'C' kit rollerisation including a sump clean out in probably roughly seven hours. The easier 'A' and 'B' kits we can do in about four. Remember though that any shop that hasn't done as many as we have will probably take longer.

With the documentation requirements? Let it just be said that while a service history is required they have eased up on the requirement for annual servicing if mileage doesn't reach the service interval. Whether this is true everywhere I don't know but here in Oz as long as there are invoice records of service by a qualified mechanic, (Doesn't even have to be an 'Official' service agency, especially if the owner is remote from a dealer/service agent.) then it is very unusual for a kit not to be supplied. The only one I've been knocked back on since I started doing multitudes of them was the bike where the idiot at the factory had stamped an incorrect VIN# on the frame and compliance plate. I was told the bike didn't exist so no kit! I sent in pics of the number and plate and started carrying on like a pork chop and two days later a 'C' kit for it fell off the back of the Toll Logistics truck at the workshop!

The main thing is work with your dealer/workshop. If you come into my shop screaming and hollerin' and telling me what I have to do for your miserable, entitled, arse you'll find yourself on the recieving end of a huge dose of F*#% You! Work with me and there's every chance we'll have your bike rollerised and purring like a kitten in short order. You'll find most other shops are the same.

In another thread I also listed the bits I'd get if I was unable to score a kit from the factory. These included an 'A' kit and some other bits that would end up being cheaper than the 'C' kit required for early models.

Pete
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Baross
Squinternotto
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PostSubject: Re: 2005 carbed Triumph Thruxton vs GRiSO 1100.   Fri Aug 05, 2016 8:47 pm

First post here. That was my bike that was rollerised by Michael yesterday. 4800 kms actually but no less horrifying to see the wear on the tappets. Celebrated with a brisk gallop back through Oberon. Very happy with the outcome.

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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: 2005 carbed Triumph Thruxton vs GRiSO 1100.   Fri Aug 05, 2016 9:04 pm

Sorry, my mistake. For some reason 2,800 was the figure I had stuck in my head.

Hope you didn't get rained on?
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Baross
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PostSubject: Re: 2005 carbed Triumph Thruxton vs GRiSO 1100.   Sat Aug 06, 2016 1:07 am

Thanks Pete. A little drizzle near home and a balmy 7 degrees but otherwise a lovely sunny run. The bike ran like a dog shot up the clacker. Next on the list will be the rear shock. Have a great holiday.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: 2005 carbed Triumph Thruxton vs GRiSO 1100.   Sat Aug 06, 2016 2:08 am

For suspension listen to Ghezzi San! He' madder than most of us.....
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: 2005 carbed Triumph Thruxton vs GRiSO 1100.   Sat Aug 06, 2016 2:12 am

Pete Roper wrote:
He' madder than most of us.....


Totes mad!
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waterbottle
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PostSubject: Re: 2005 carbed Triumph Thruxton vs GRiSO 1100.   Sat Aug 06, 2016 3:07 am

Be careful, he's trying to get his front wheel under his seat, for ultra quick steering Laughing
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yrunvs
Don Abbondio
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Join date : 2014-08-22

PostSubject: Re: 2005 carbed Triumph Thruxton vs GRiSO 1100.   Sun Aug 07, 2016 6:48 pm

Pete Roper wrote:
OK,

1.) All flatties are doomed. No exceptions.

2.) Somewhere in one of the tech threads there is an embedded video of me pulling the LH cambox off a GRiSO. The video is 13 minutes long. That's all it takes to find out.

3.) Cost of kits varies depending on which one the machine requires. 'C' and 'D' kits, ('D' kit is late Sport 1200 only.) cost substantially more than 'A' and 'B' kits due to more parts being needed.

4.) As with the different price of the kits time for installation varies. 'C' and 'D' kits require the heads to come off and the inlet valves to come out. This adds substantially to the time. Depending on how much damage has occurred it may be necessary to back flush the oil cooler and lines and we almost always drop the sump for a thorough clean out. Bearing in mind that Michael and I have probably done more rollerisations than pretty much anyone else at a guess we can turn over a 'C' kit rollerisation including a sump clean out in probably roughly seven hours. The easier 'A' and 'B' kits we can do in about four. Remember though that any shop that hasn't done as many as we have will probably take longer.

With the documentation requirements? Let it just be said that while a service history is required they have eased up on the requirement for annual servicing if mileage doesn't reach the service interval. Whether this is true everywhere I don't know but here in Oz as long as there are invoice records of service by a qualified mechanic, (Doesn't even have to be an 'Official' service agency, especially if the owner is remote from a dealer/service agent.) then it is very unusual for a kit not to be supplied. The only one I've been knocked back on since I started doing multitudes of them was the bike where the idiot at the factory had stamped an incorrect VIN# on the frame and compliance plate. I was told the bike didn't exist so no kit! I sent in pics of the number and plate and started carrying on like a pork chop and two days later a 'C' kit for it fell off the back of the Toll Logistics truck at the workshop!

The main thing is work with your dealer/workshop. If you come into my shop screaming and hollerin' and telling me what I have to do for your miserable, entitled, arse you'll find yourself on the recieving end of a huge dose of F*#% You! Work with me and there's every chance we'll have your bike rollerised and purring like a kitten in short order. You'll find most other shops are the same.

In another thread I also listed the bits I'd get if I was unable to score a kit from the factory. These included an 'A' kit and some other bits that would end up being cheaper than the 'C' kit required for early models.

Pete



The bolded/underlined part is the wild card and why I have decided not to mess with a flatty.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: 2005 carbed Triumph Thruxton vs GRiSO 1100.   Sun Aug 07, 2016 7:46 pm

That's cool. An informed decision is fine. What lights my blue touchpaper is people who just arbitrarily declare that all 8V's are shitboxes without knowing anything and warning people off them without understanding the first thing about the problems they have.

Sure, its a big problem, but don't for a minute think other machines are immune from problems. What makes the issue so much more troublesome is the fact that Guzzis are such low volume sellers that even 'Good' dealers may not know about the issue. Mark and I have just been 'Spreading the love' to another bloke who bought an '09 Stelvio from AF1 over on their web board. Now their reputation is damn good and I've visited their shop and they're a smart crew but they hadn't picked up that this bike was an unmodified flattie and the new owner is, needless to say, unhappy, but what can you do? The bike is running fine, or so it seems. Its very hard to know that its grinding itself to mush if it doesn't show any outward signs!

Pete
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yrunvs
Don Abbondio
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PostSubject: Re: 2005 carbed Triumph Thruxton vs GRiSO 1100.   Thu Sep 08, 2016 6:21 pm

Still looking for a GRiSO. I emailed this seller but havent heard back. Would this GRiSO have flatties or rollers?

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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: 2005 carbed Triumph Thruxton vs GRiSO 1100.   Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:22 pm

If it's a 2013 model it should be a roller.
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Papa Lazarou
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PostSubject: Re: 2005 carbed Triumph Thruxton vs GRiSO 1100.   Fri Sep 09, 2016 12:05 am

For comparing ergos, this site is brilliant. You can even compare your old bike against others.

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boxerscott
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PostSubject: Re: 2005 carbed Triumph Thruxton vs GRiSO 1100.   Sun Sep 18, 2016 5:27 am

yrunvs wrote:
So is it fair to say that all flat tappet bikes will show tappet degradation? And so no matter what the milage the prudent thing to do is to park it (and do not run it) tear it apart to quantify the damage then purchase the appropriate kit (unless I have all maintenance documentation then MG supplies it at no charge)?
Assuming I find a low milage 1200 and purchase it I should expect my costs to be:

1. The price I pay for the cycle.
2. Cost to document degradation.
3. Roller kit.
4. Kit installation.


How much will 2,3 and 4 be?

Just typing this out makes me feel like running away from doing a rollerization as fast as I can.
It is not fair to say all flatties show signs of impending doom. Mine did not. I bought the early model 8v GRiSO with the lighter wheels Smile and A1 pedigree. I am the second owner and it was cost effective for me because, I had a helpful dealer, Piaggio supported my request and I could not have bought a rollered model for what this cost me. It was a process but happened over  our winter and spring season. You pay your dollar and you watch the show. The GRiSO for me is a very satisfying bike to own. No model or manufacturer are perfect.[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: 2005 carbed Triumph Thruxton vs GRiSO 1100.   Sun Sep 18, 2016 5:42 am

I have to say that those tappets look nothing like ant DLC coated Flattie I've ever seen! Not nearly reflective enough, almost looks like they've been painted with matt black paint! Very Happy

Believe me, they will ALL fail. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when.

Two questions Scott.

Were you there when the camboxes were pulled and those pics were taken?

How many kms were on the bike at the time of the inspection?
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boxerscott
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PostSubject: Re: 2005 carbed Triumph Thruxton vs GRiSO 1100.   Sun Sep 18, 2016 7:36 am

Not the best photo I must admit, but once all the oily residue was wiped off they looked like polished ceramic. I am happy they are gone, Smile

Edit,

Peter, I was not present when the work was carried out. I was 250 miles away. I took the photie when I went to pick the bike up 9 weeks after dropping it off.

Chris


Last edited by boxerscott on Mon Sep 19, 2016 1:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: 2005 carbed Triumph Thruxton vs GRiSO 1100.   Sun Sep 18, 2016 1:52 pm

Those tappets don't look right. Suspect



Suspect
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boxerscott
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PostSubject: Re: 2005 carbed Triumph Thruxton vs GRiSO 1100.   Mon Sep 19, 2016 2:04 pm

beetle wrote:
Those tappets don't look right.  Suspect



Suspect
No  Probably because they are not dished and void of coating. I`m just telling you guys mine did not show signs of degradation, but they are gone anyway, history, to the tappet retirement home.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: 2005 carbed Triumph Thruxton vs GRiSO 1100.   Mon Sep 19, 2016 2:21 pm

I've seen undamaged tappets that have done several thousand miles. They don't look like that. Just sayin'.



cheers
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: 2005 carbed Triumph Thruxton vs GRiSO 1100.   Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:52 pm

That's the thing. They just don't look right. I have no explanation but there is something weird about them in the pic.

Pete
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