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 More shagged tappets

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Steve Waller
Carlotto
Carlotto


Posts : 32
Join date : 2014-07-30

PostSubject: More shagged tappets   Sat Aug 13, 2016 6:03 am

Worst ones I have seen yet. Apparently the dealer fitted a roller kit under warranty - wonder what else he replaced/checked with that damage?
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Pete Roper
GRiSO
GRiSO


Posts : 3783
Join date : 2013-05-29
Age : 59

PostSubject: Re: More shagged tappets   Sat Aug 13, 2016 7:13 am

Jesus wept! How could anyone keep riding it like that? It must of sounded horrendous!

Pete
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beetle
GRiSO
GRiSO


Posts : 3976
Join date : 2013-09-30

PostSubject: Re: More shagged tappets   Sat Aug 13, 2016 11:55 am

I'm surprised it ran at all! Shocked



.
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wardentm
Nibbio
Nibbio


Posts : 516
Join date : 2015-05-16
Age : 64

PostSubject: Re: More shagged tappets   Sat Aug 13, 2016 3:24 pm

How could the engine keep going with the valve clearances this would have caused ?
How would the poor old starter motor have coped ?
Interesting case study.
What amazes me is that Guzzi 'paid' some 'bright' engineers to design this great system, what went wrong ?
Question, are these same engineers still working for Guzzi ? Can we now have confidence to pony up for a new one ?
I feel for those poor bastards out there who are about to fork out hard earned for one of these time bombs.
I was just lucky when I bought my G11
Have a great safe day all
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waterbottle
GRiSO
GRiSO


Posts : 1041
Join date : 2015-02-02
Age : 55

PostSubject: Re: More shagged tappets   Sat Aug 13, 2016 4:16 pm

WOW Shocked pale
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beetle
GRiSO
GRiSO


Posts : 3976
Join date : 2013-09-30

PostSubject: Re: More shagged tappets   Sat Aug 13, 2016 4:23 pm

Trev, I'd expect Guzzi didn't do their own DLC coatings. Likely outsourced.



Also, I'm thinking that damage can't be all down to the DLC coming off. Surely?

.
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Pete Roper
GRiSO
GRiSO


Posts : 3783
Join date : 2013-05-29
Age : 59

PostSubject: Re: More shagged tappets   Sat Aug 13, 2016 7:46 pm

Well, it's the result of the DLC coming off. By the time it got to the stage of the one on the right though you can see the mess that has been made of the cambox casting by bits of shrapnel being fired around as it fell to bits.

I still can't imagine what it must of sounded like or how the owner could of kept on riding it! All I can imagine is that they were one of those perverse bastards who would ride it to death saying 'Well, it's under warranty so somebody'll fix it for me if it's broken!' It would of been cacophanously noisy and virtually impossible to ride with that much wear!

Pete
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ghezzi
Fra Cristoforo
Fra Cristoforo


Posts : 1699
Join date : 2014-05-22
Age : 59

PostSubject: Re: More shagged tappets   Sat Aug 13, 2016 11:07 pm

"If I rev it harder the noise might go away"
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http://www.biketowbrisbane.com.au
LBC Tenni
Nibbio
Nibbio


Posts : 502
Join date : 2014-06-05

PostSubject: Re: More shagged tappets   Sun Aug 14, 2016 12:15 am

It really must have sounded like a gravel grinder. Owner must be deaf or close to it. Can a motor really survive this and remain serviceable without a complete rebuild? I wouldn't ride it. Scary.
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wardentm
Nibbio
Nibbio


Posts : 516
Join date : 2015-05-16
Age : 64

PostSubject: Re: More shagged tappets   Sun Aug 14, 2016 1:01 am

If this was just a case of the DLC coating failing why then did Guzzi just not source a cap with 'good' DLC and replace the old ones instead of going down the whole roller route ?
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boxerscott
Grignapoco
Grignapoco


Posts : 145
Join date : 2016-01-25
Age : 59

PostSubject: Re: More shagged tappets   Wed Aug 17, 2016 3:47 pm

Steve, I am right in thinking this is not your bike and the photos you post are from someone else? maybe the dealer?

Looks like someone has mutilated those tappets and is having a laugh.

Find this post hard to digest.
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Pete Roper
GRiSO
GRiSO


Posts : 3783
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Age : 59

PostSubject: Re: More shagged tappets   Wed Aug 17, 2016 6:07 pm

Oh I can see them getting that bad if they are left long enough. Look at the frag damage to the cambox casting, they're genuine.

Pete
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Pete Roper
GRiSO
GRiSO


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PostSubject: Re: More shagged tappets   Wed Aug 17, 2016 6:09 pm

wardentm wrote:
If this was just a case of the DLC coating failing why then did Guzzi just not source a cap with 'good' DLC and replace the old ones instead of going down the whole roller route ?

Because DLC was the wrong choice for this application.
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LBC Tenni
Nibbio
Nibbio


Posts : 502
Join date : 2014-06-05

PostSubject: Re: More shagged tappets   Wed Aug 17, 2016 9:31 pm

It would be interesting to know how many miles resulted in this level of damage. Can you inquire of the dealer Steve?
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Pete Roper
GRiSO
GRiSO


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Age : 59

PostSubject: Re: More shagged tappets   Thu Aug 18, 2016 12:40 am

Mileage doesn't seem to be the largest contributory factor. Maintenance, climate and usage all seem to have a far greater impact. I've seen bikes with as little as 5,000km with appreciable wear and ones with just over 10,000 that were totally 'Donald Ducked'. Conversely I've seen ones with comparatively minor wear, but still wear, at approaching 40,000. I have my ideas as to why this is so but don't think it's worth documenting them here as it will just muddy the water rather than promoting debate and might also lull some into a false sense of security when there is none.

Pete
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Belfastguzzi
Tanabuso
Tanabuso


Posts : 56
Join date : 2015-05-19

PostSubject: Re: More shagged tappets   Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:51 am

Grief Steve, I didn't see this when posted earlier. The comfort to be taken is that it seems the G12 will keep running even if you drop half your toolbox into it and it bashes itself about like boxers with lump hammers up their gloves. Re the comment about how did it run with valve clearances opened up? I know from my first experience of this that the motor runs 'ok' with clearances that a complete bundle of feeler gauge leaves fit into with room to spare. (I'm not speaking about the above example though!) The performance does drop and the noise does increase. The thing back then was that no-one expected anything like this to happen and to some extent the increasing noise from an already noisy motor creeps up on you. It was the performance drop as much as the noise that made me investigate further.

But that was seven years ago, at a time when Guzzi's response was adamant that there was no problem and as the issue advanced Piaggio UK told me it was nothing other than "internet hysteria". What is more surprising than seeing more pics of more damage like this, in the second half of 2016, is that all these motors aren't being addressed by now. Although Piaggio Guzzi have done an about-turn, I suppose Guzzi and Piaggio want to continue to keep the problem under the carpet as much as they can, rather than come out and do all the can to advise everyone to take action. However unlike the early days there is overwhelming documentation of the reality of this problem and widespread awareness not only of what goes wrong and but what needs to be done. Pictures of this damage issue have been online world-wide since early 2009 – maybe even 2008 (year one).
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Grisonut
GRiSO
GRiSO


Posts : 1015
Join date : 2014-01-02

PostSubject: Re: More shagged tappets   Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:22 pm

beetle wrote:
I'm surprised it ran at all! Shocked



.

Same here. scratch scratch
Tough mill!
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mark111
Grignapoco
Grignapoco


Posts : 187
Join date : 2014-04-23

PostSubject: Re: More shagged tappets   Thu Sep 08, 2016 7:52 pm

Shitbags, won't be rebuilding that, makes mine a Ralf's look brand new.
How the hell could you get a kit under warranty for that?
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Barney21
Don Abbondio
Don Abbondio


Posts : 3
Join date : 2016-09-09

PostSubject: Re: More shagged tappets   Fri Sep 09, 2016 3:40 pm

Have MG fixed this problem? If so from what build Vin# are they safe to buy.
Has the 12008V sport got the same engine? I would imagine it has.
The 1400 Californian is a completely different engine, Yes/No.?
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Bulldog9
Grignapoco
Grignapoco


Posts : 101
Join date : 2016-05-14

PostSubject: Re: More shagged tappets   Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:57 pm

Barney21 wrote:
Have MG fixed this problem? If so from what build Vin# are they safe to buy.
Has the 12008V sport got the same engine? I would imagine it has.
The 1400 Californian is a completely different engine, Yes/No.?

This is related to the 1200 8V CARC motors 2008 through 2012-2013 from then on should all have factory roller followers/lifters.


Last edited by Bulldog9 on Sun Sep 11, 2016 6:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Pete Roper
GRiSO
GRiSO


Posts : 3783
Join date : 2013-05-29
Age : 59

PostSubject: Re: More shagged tappets   Fri Sep 09, 2016 11:01 pm

Brandy, the answers to these questions have been answered a dozen times on this forum. A search will tell you what you need to know.

Basically though the swap to rollers occurred mid 2012, it fixed the problem. The exception being 1200Sports which were never built with rollers ex factory and require either a 'C' or 'D' kit to fix.

The Cali 14 engine is virtually identical to the 1200, an extra plug and bigger bore being the major differences. What makes the Cali 14 significantly different is its engine management system.

Pete
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PostSubject: Re: More shagged tappets   Today at 1:41 am

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