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 She's fighting me in curves

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ZumWohl
Squinternotto
Squinternotto


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Join date : 2016-09-28

PostSubject: She's fighting me in curves   Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:10 am

New guy here needs your help; I recently bought a used (6000 mile) 2015 Red Devil GRiSO and am having difficulty setting it up.

When I rode it home from Virginia (about 250 miles on back roads), the triple trees were set at the 2nd highest ring, which is factory setting, right? I could tell I wanted to lower it, so I dropped 2 more rings. A couple test rides on familiar roads made me want to drop more, so now it is at the 5th ring.

It still doesn't feel right... she's fighting to try and stay upright in the curves, there's no natural inclination to 'fall' into them. Do I need to drop more?

This past weekend I took both bikes out for fuel top-off and Marine Sta-Bil treatment. First I rode my '05 V-Strom 1000 and was so impressed how I could make that bike do anything smoothly, the corner carving is great. Granted I've had it for years and many tens of thousand miles, it fits me perfectly.

Then I take out the GRiSO. The corners are a battle even after tweaking, can't get the right lean and have to force my way through them. Kinda depressing as I thought this would be THE BIKE for me.

So, what do you recommend? I should note that have yet to set sag, rebound, and compression. But I would think the setting of the forks in the triple trees would be independent of that.

Thanks in advance for any advice!

Regards - Don
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: She's fighting me in curves   Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:14 am

Under sprung and over damped. I run mine at the sixth line but you must remember that Ita a long wheelbase machine. Wind the preload up and then play with the damping. Best bang for buck you'll get though with the stock set up is less and lighter fork oil.

Also what tyre pressures are you running.
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ghezzi
Fra Cristoforo
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PostSubject: Re: She's fighting me in curves   Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:26 am

At 6000 miles are you still on the original Metzelers?
New tyres and better tyres might also help.
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Charlie J
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PostSubject: Re: She's fighting me in curves   Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:46 am

Don,have a gander at similar posts here. Stock suspenders are a bit "iffyy". But stock gear can be tuned to be "adequate". Set yor sag ,ya may need a helper, Ride a local road armed with adjustment tools and a notebook and adjust and record to your liking.Unless you spend a lot of time riding in the rain I strongly reccomend Michelin Pilot Powers.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: She's fighting me in curves   Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:51 am

GRiSO is Mr Understeer. Go to the 6th ring. Put more puff in the rear tyre. Better yet, change the rear shock for a Stelvio unit or a unit that can be adjusted for length.

I have mine set at the 6th ring, and my shock is just 7mm longer, but the difference is amazing.

Better riding through aggressive spending.




alien
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Dilliw
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PostSubject: Re: She's fighting me in curves   Tue Nov 22, 2016 1:08 pm

Hey Don,

After you eat up the Metzelers I'm betting you will like it more. When I got the GRiSO I fought it just like you. Winding up the preload really helps (I'm 235lbs) but different tires made a bigger difference. I think the GRiSO is especially sensitive to tires and tire pressures for some reason.

I've got a new set of Angel GTs on it and I'm running the pressures at 36psi front and 40psi rear. I found that the manual suggests higher pressures for the SE wheels vs the mags. Anyway I'm now not fighting it near as much.

But as Pete says it's a long wheelbase bike and that's the real limiter.
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Steak
L'Innominato
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PostSubject: Re: She's fighting me in curves   Tue Nov 22, 2016 1:47 pm

There's always a bit of wrasslin' that goes along with riding the GRiSO fast through curves.  To some that's part of its charm.  Like a headstrong stallion, you kind of gotta show it who's boss.

Like your V-Strom, the Stelvio just loves to fall into turns.  Steering is super light and the bike rides kind of sing-song swoopy, but give me a GRiSO on a curvy road any day.  I'm a much more "active participant" when riding the GRiSO, and that's half the fun for me.  Sure, all of the suggestions above will improve the compliance of the GRiSO, but bringing the beast to heel will still require a firm hand.  The GRiSO is no lap dog.  If that is what you were looking for, then the GRiSO will never speak to you.

But, that's just my opinion.

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
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2012 MOTO GUZZI GRiSO 1200SE

2013 MOTO GUZZI STELVIO 1200NTX - Orange Blossom Special
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ZumWohl
Squinternotto
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PostSubject: Re: She's fighting me in curves   Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:04 pm

Hmmm, lots of factors in play, eh? I know this topic has likely been beaten to death, but I only see snippets of it while looking through old posts. I appreciate all of the input here... much more to consider than I thought!

I will set the sag this week, when there will be ample help as my house gets overrun with Thanksgiving holiday guests, then change the fork oil and work on other settings. New tires will have to wait as will a new shock.

I guess I wasn't aware of the characteristics and I'll have to face up to reality. I'll get this bike to give me grins like so many others have. Thanks again for the ideas!
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Bill Hagan
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PostSubject: Re: She's fighting me in curves   Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:33 pm

ZumWohl wrote:
New guy here needs your help; I recently bought a used (6000 mile) 2015 Red Devil GRiSO and am having difficulty setting it up.

When I rode it home from Virginia (about 250 miles on back roads), the triple trees were set at the 2nd highest ring, which is factory setting, right?  I could tell I wanted to lower it, so I dropped 2 more rings.  A couple test rides on familiar roads made me want to drop more, so now it is at the 5th ring.

It still doesn't feel right... she's fighting to try and stay upright in the curves, there's no natural inclination to 'fall' into them.  Do I need to drop more?

This past weekend I took both bikes out for fuel top-off and Marine Sta-Bil treatment.  First I rode my '05 V-Strom 1000 and was so impressed how I could make that bike do anything smoothly, the corner carving is great.  Granted I've had it for years and many tens of thousand miles, it fits me perfectly.

Then I take out the GRiSO.  The corners are a battle even after tweaking, can't get the right lean and have to force my way through them.  Kinda depressing as I thought this would be THE BIKE for me.

So, what do you recommend?  I should note that have yet to set sag, rebound, and compression.  But I would think the setting of the forks in the triple trees would be independent of that.

Thanks in advance for any advice!

Regards - Don

Permit me to quote what one of the brilliant members I particularly admire here recently said in a post welcoming you to Grisodom last month:

Bill Hagan wrote:


[T]oday -- yes, today, after four years and 16K miles -- I finally realized on a two-day 400-miler in south central Pennsylvania that I have been wrong about the GRiSO's handling.

All that time, I have viewed the GRiSO as a bit of pig, at least compared to my Norge.  The latter was (and remains), IMO, a spritely lass for a big fat girl ST.  I love the way it virtually falls into turns.

The GRiSO, OTOH, with its long wheel base and other attributes, requires forceful countersteer to enter and leave turns.

I thought that was "bad," and have whined about that here and elsewhere when -- finally! -- I realized it was just different.  I began to appreciate and enjoy that today.    

OK, yes, I am a slow learner.  jocolor

Now, I may yet fiddle with dropping the TT just for the heck of it, but now that I see it was me, not the GRiSO, I may "just ride it."

What a(n irascible) sweetheart the GRiSO is.  Have fun out there.

Bill



Still, despite that fellow's comments, if you really have to do something, the others' counsel may get you there.  

If not, we live in a wonderful time and there is something out there that will make you grin as did your V-Strom.  I have, btw, ridden a number of miles on a liter version and found it so boring I almost fell asleep on the BRP.  But that's why God made blondes, redheads, brunettes, and more in all sorts of pleasing ages, shapes, and sizes.  

Best wishes on making your GRiSO fit you.

Bill
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waterbottle
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PostSubject: Re: She's fighting me in curves   Tue Nov 22, 2016 7:32 pm

I have found it best to have 2 GRiSO's .  One for touring at normal speeds ?, the other to cane or flog like a red headed stepchild  cheers.  
They both seem effortless to corner, fronts are 6 rings down with rear raised and heavier springs. The standard rear shock is way to soft and would squat down when accelerating out of corners which was blowing the bike out wide in every turn. 
It sounds counter-intuitive but a heavier rear spring and compression and rebound damping set properly softens the ride. I found the original shock was bottoming out on big bumps so kept increasing the compression damping , result was the back end was very stiff but would still Jack itself down ( because of the soft Spring ) further increasing the steering angle . 
Anyway you look at it, the GRiSO is a great bike to ride , but can be even better set up for your riding weight,
Now if I could figure out a use for a third GRiSO ..........
Apologies to any red headed step children for my bad humor Neutral


Last edited by waterbottle on Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Charlie J
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PostSubject: Re: She's fighting me in curves   Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:08 pm

A use for a 3rd GRiSO you say Ron? That will be the turboed version wont it?
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waterbottle
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PostSubject: Re: She's fighting me in curves   Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:25 pm

Ha Ha, no I don't think so. I was more thinking Ape hangars, Tassles, ball burning high mounted forward foot pegs Laughing
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guzziownr
Biondino
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PostSubject: Re: She's fighting me in curves   Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:42 pm

At 6'4" and 230 lbs I am not Mr. Average, nor am I a "good" rider or particularly sensitive to bike setup.  I did put in a Stelvio shock which has a stiffer spring, more travel and raises the rear end a bit.  I got to ride it a bit on the track this year as well as my local mountain roads and I have no complaints.  The bike feels very balanced and easy to ride in all situations.  HH pads in the front brakes too...

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Grisonut
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PostSubject: Re: She's fighting me in curves   Wed Nov 23, 2016 1:01 am

The GRiSO's suspension has to be sorted...it's all fucked up from the factory.
Then you can upgrade the rear shock like some have done and yes, Metzeler are bad news.
I managed to have both bikes handling really good with stock bits but I'm 5.7" and 165lbs...
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Street
Nibbio
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PostSubject: Re: She's fighting me in curves   Wed Nov 23, 2016 1:05 am

waterbottle wrote:
Ha Ha, no I don't think so. I was more thinking Ape hangars, Tassles, ball burning high mounted  forward foot pegs Laughing

Gotcha covered, Ron, except for the highway pegs, no real good place to mount those on a GRiSO.

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Pete (Street)
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keenerkeen07
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PostSubject: Re: She's fighting me in curves   Wed Nov 23, 2016 3:35 am

I have a 1100 GRiSO added a Matris Shock... PR4 Tires ..36 front 40 rear psi ...played with the front Suspenstion  5 lines showing .. long story short the bike handles very well ,it needs to be shown the way in and out but i accept that and i love it in this motorcycle.. it makes you work at it and becomes part of you when your pushing corners.in my opinion there is nothing wrong with that at all...

its a mannish bike ...ride it like one
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ZumWohl
Squinternotto
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PostSubject: Re: She's fighting me in curves   Wed Nov 23, 2016 6:36 am

I appreciate all the sound advice. I'm not going to give up!

This bike is a departure from my rather tame riding career, and I knew that going in... it's what I was looking for. But with your help, I'm realizing that some adjustments need to be made to bike, but mostly to me! I have to redefine what I expect. And I can adapt to my new reality. I know we'll get along great someday (when the bank account gets replenished!).

Again, thanks for the honest input. I hope to meet up with some of you next season.

Regards - Don
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ghezzi
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PostSubject: Re: She's fighting me in curves   Wed Nov 23, 2016 8:28 am

Never say DIE!

Don, when you get some free time here's 8 pages of madness -
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Probably another 8 pages somewhere just on suspension mods too.

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Bulldog9
Grignapoco
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PostSubject: Re: She's fighting me in curves   Wed Nov 23, 2016 6:40 pm

The GRiSO is one of the most sensitive to suspension setting and tire pressures I have owned. This is a good and bad thing. Good because once you learn where the sweet spot is for YOU, you are good to go. Bad if you arent willing to set up and monitor settings.

For me the sweet spot is:

Tire Pressures: 32# Front, 36#Rear. Easy to remember are the same as the Porsche. Any More front and it feels twitchy, less and it is "slow"  38 in the rear gives better turn in and staying over in the turns, but 36 feels best. Lower in the rear makes it feel like it has a flat rear tire.

Tire condition really matters......... If you have a flat spot and big chicken strips on your tires, or they are about done, you may find that new tires fix the Issue. I have the Diablos, but will go with PR4's when they wear out.


On the suspension, here is what I have.

FRONT
Preload - 3 lines showing is on 4th line
Tubes in Triple Tree - 3 showing is on 4th line
TOP - 1.5-1.75 turns out from fully closed
BOTTOM - 1.25 turns out from fully closed

REAR
Spring Preload - In stock position, has never been changed
TOP - 1/4 turn in from fully open
BOTTOM - 22 clicks out from fully closed

These are the best settings for me for general purpose riding. If I am going to be pushing it or in fast sweepers or 'canyon' carving, I will tighten the rear preload and then leave the rest alone.

It's definitely not a bike for a 'soft' rider who likes an easy ride. It likes to be 'worked' pushed and controlled. I've found the wide bars on the GRiSO are also something to adjust to, and the first 15 minutes after getting off the Norge take a bit to adjust to. The Norge is a sweet easy handling bike, but on roads when it runs out of suspension, the GRiSO seems to shine. Which do I like better? Depends on the day and how I am riding.

As I said earlier, is finicky, but take your time and set it for you. I initially set it up with the stock settings, rode it on a 10 mile stretch of roads, then started playing with the preload and rebound, starting with extremes one function at a time dialed it in and ended with the settings above. Took me 2-3 days of fiddling.
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Bill Hagan
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PostSubject: Re: She's fighting me in curves   Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:26 pm


Thanks for that.

As a fellow Norge and GRiSO rider/owner, agree with but one exception -- perhaps explained by my being a less-skilled rider than you, my limits come way sooner, and I have a first-gen Norge.

I have a few hundred miles on my brother's 8v, but one doesn't -- or, at least, this one doesn't -- ride another guy's motorcycle as one might ride one's own.

I also have an after-market rear shock and spring that make mine a quite fine touring machine, even (and probably especially) when I outride my competence. affraid

My point is that my Norge has not run out of suspension since I up-gunned the rear.

But, again, thanks for the numbers.  I run virtually same PSI -- tho it makes me feel more Italian to use BAR.   cheers

To make your settings more meaningful for us disgustingly lazy types Rolling Eyes , might you share your "fighting weight." Very Happy

Bill
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Dilliw
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PostSubject: Re: She's fighting me in curves   Thu Nov 24, 2016 12:23 am

Just remember you can make huge gains by just adjusting the stock suspension and changing your air pressures. In fact if you do those adjustments then add $20 in NGK spark plug caps, $100 for a Beetle map, and $30 for the cables you can transform the bike you have now.



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Bulldog9
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PostSubject: Re: She's fighting me in curves   Thu Nov 24, 2016 5:10 am

Bill, I'm about 190-200. Don't get me wrong the suspension on the Norge is great but gets unsettled and maybe overwhelmed when pushed hard in twisties where the GRiSO in the same turns is more settled. I do have the Norge setup more for touring and comfort. I imagine some fiddling and maybe forkoil will help but I'm very happy with it, just really need to fix the 6500 power drop off and it will be perfect.... I've also noticed that the GRiSO does not respond as well to turning by shifting bodyweight like the Norge it requires much more bar input pushing through the turns which to be honest I like when riding hard .

I've also noticed that the GRiSO sometimes feels unstable at parking lot and low-speed situations where the Norge is amazingly sweet and balanced.


Last edited by Bulldog9 on Thu Nov 24, 2016 12:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ZumWohl
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PostSubject: Re: She's fighting me in curves   Thu Nov 24, 2016 6:17 am

Beetle... installing a Stelvio shock sounds like a great idea. A similar fix was for V-Strom 650 owners to plug a DL-1000 shock in, to fix the anemic performance of the original.

I like that idea, as I can hunt for a Stelvio owner upgrading to an aftermarket shock, and hopefully get one for a reasonable price.

I also like everybody's idea of different tires... I'll work on wearing out the Metzlers early next year!

One other thing I learned from these responses; I bought the bike with H-B engine guards installed, so my highway pegs will hang there. Just hope the tassels from my ape hangers don't get caught on them.

I also have a red, white, and green 'get back whip' on order. Got to do it right, y'know.

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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: She's fighting me in curves   Thu Nov 24, 2016 9:11 am

ZumWohl wrote:

I also have a red, white, and green 'get back whip' on order.  Got to do it right, y'know.




You're gonna fit right in, here.. cheers






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bioman
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PostSubject: Re: She's fighting me in curves   Thu Nov 24, 2016 5:48 pm

ZumWohl wrote:
I also have a red, white, and green 'get back whip' on order.  Got to do it right, y'know.


I had to look this up, as I had no idea what you were writing about.  So:

"The purposes are to display your motorcycle club colors, increase visibility and add to your individual style.

and

"The Get Back Whips will fan out while riding and will not slap the rider or passenger. All Get Back Whips are hand-braided over a rope core and attached directly to a quick release that can be attached to either the brake or clutch lever. With a quick downward pull, the whip can be released quickly in case of an "emergency."  

Wow... I learn something new every day.   Not sure what the 'emergency' can be.  Angry members of an other 'club'? A rabid moose?

Glad to say that I have never seen one in real life. Hope it stays that way.

Shocked
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