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 Big Girl Blew Me

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Uzidzit
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PostSubject: Big Girl Blew Me   Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:53 pm

OR MY day with my Stelvio

Well Today while pulling away from a stop light, got to about 40mph and the rear wheel locked up, (heard a sound much like a small Bomb going off, (hit the clutch The old 2 stroke habits die hard) The rear wheel did about 1/2 rotation and locked up again.

The engine had quit and there was a huge cloud of smoke out from under the seat and we skidded to a stop in the middle of a 5 lane....what fun

Managed to get it in Neutral and the rear wheel to turn and push it to the side of the road and get it towed back to the house.

Engine looks fine, but may have jumped time, the starter gear is chipped and there are pieces of the exploded clutch scattered in the housing...From what I can see it looks like the input shaft to the tranny is fucked as well, oh yeah and there is some tranny oil in the galley and a ton of aluminium dust.

So if you have a '12 NTX that has the clutch groan when cold and a little knock (mine did this from new) My dealer had said it was just fine all along. (ALWAYS MUCH LOUDER AND VIBEY THAN MY 12 GRiSO) You may want to check it out before is explodes in a giant bang. Guess I won,t be making the meet up in ft Collins, or the campout this year........again  Suspect 

Can I still come if I ride my weestrom? Maybe I can stop in Denver for some brownies and the good folks in Ft. Collins won't notice the the suzuki on the side  Wink 

BTW the inspection cover shot out the side of the case like it came out of a gun.


Last edited by Uzidzit on Sat Jun 14, 2014 8:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Big Girl Blew Me   Sat Jun 14, 2014 8:04 pm

I'll be very interested to find out what happened here.

Pete
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Big Girl Blew Me   Sat Jun 14, 2014 8:24 pm

Shocked
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Uzidzit
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PostSubject: Re: Big Girl Blew Me   Sat Jun 14, 2014 8:26 pm

So would I quite frankly, I am either 1 week out of warranty, or two weeks in....from what I can see through the holes with an endoscope it looks pretty bad...like new tranny, clutch assy, starter bad.

I am out of town next week so i cant get it to It's home dealer till next sunday.....I am sure i won't see it for quite a few months after that.

The Stella clutch always had a tick and groan cold, but the groan cold is something that seems to be normal, i was never completely comfortable with the tapping/rattle from it ...I guess i was right to think it was not as normal as they did...funny though it was always louder than their demo bike.

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DungeonMaster
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PostSubject: Re: Big Girl Blew Me   Sat Jun 14, 2014 8:54 pm

That's just shitty as Hell.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Big Girl Blew Me   Sat Jun 14, 2014 9:22 pm

First event I've heard of of this type. Sounds as if the flywheel may of let go? No idea why that would happen.

Pete
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Steak
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PostSubject: Re: Big Girl Blew Me   Sun Jun 15, 2014 1:00 am

Fornicate upon me running...

I would think that a well connected dealer could square this away regardless.

Fucking Stelvios...

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
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2012 MOTO GUZZI GRiSO 1200SE

2013 MOTO GUZZI STELVIO 1200NTX - Orange Blossom Special
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Uzidzit
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PostSubject: Re: Big Girl Blew Me   Sun Jun 15, 2014 6:20 am

Nice to have a two year warrenty that was you can ride for one while it is broken for the other it figures out to a standard 1yr...cool. I realized that my stella has had "open " warrenty issues since the day I brought her home. This time they are going to do every thing every little cracked stamped trim nut etc. Last chance. still waiting on the replacement wing for the one cracked when I took delivery.
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Grisonut
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PostSubject: Re: Big Girl Blew Me   Sun Jun 15, 2014 9:09 am

Damn Uzi, talk about bad luck.  Sad  Sad  Sad 
I hope you'll be able to get all this resolved without going through a nightmare.
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pauldaytona
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PostSubject: Re: Big Girl Blew Me   Sun Jun 15, 2014 10:10 am

Uni, first time I hear from a clutch on on 8v doing that. We had that with v11 scura single plates where the alu flywheel exploded. But this clutch is different, no alu flywheel as far as I know. Please get pictures when it is opended. If you pm me your engine of VIN I lookup when warrenty official ends accoording to the Guzzi computer
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Big Girl Blew Me   Sun Jun 15, 2014 10:29 am

Yes, this is the first time I've heard of something like this. In my experience the clutch and gearbox of the 8V bikes have been unburstable! Its certainly the only 'Catastrophic' failure I've heard of. There were no earlier signs of impending doom?

Pete
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Uzidzit
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PostSubject: Re: Big Girl Blew Me   Sun Jun 15, 2014 3:12 pm

It always had a slight tapping, and it also sounded like a for lack of a better description loose throwout bearing in a carrier when in neutral with the clutch out...I know it is a different clutch than the GRiSO so I never thought about the difference too much. I am More interested to see how it came un-glued than pissed really....but I think the late 11 and early 12 s in the stella have some parts issues..

There was a run of bad head light switches in the late '11s and the mold for the wings was wrong causing the left to crack...mine has been cracked since I picked up the bike, (still waiting on the replacement) The first Ntx windshields were also bad and had a really bad tendency to bulls eye around the mounting holes. (I am on screen 2)

There was also a run of rear wheels that did not get the short spokes torqued correctly and leaked in late '11 (I got one of those to) that one took 11 mths to get the warranty part. I actually re-built the original myself with new high vac synthetic orings and vac grease and torqued it during the retru according to the specs i got from the alpina guy in CA, and it was fine there after, I let them go ahead with the replacement as I was into it for 7 mths at that point, and it had been shipped...I was getting some corrosion of the nipples so it may keep it sound a few more years.

I really love riding the thing when I can, It is a true joy....

now if they can figure out why 3 of the screws on the oil pan do not bottom on the pan I will be happy, I tried to tighten them no go / tried to loosen no go. found this at the first oil change. but the bike was oil tight so I figured i would just drill them out when they broke when i had to tear the engine down in the future and put in inserts....I think they can just fix it along with the rest.

Paul i will have to get you the vin i think it ends in 111772 but i am in Dallas for work right now and the big girl is in Knoxvegas, it is an AC prefix with a build date of like nov 2011, and a flat tappet, My GRiSO is also a '12 but a feb 29 2012 build date and is a roller. (I know the Grisos vin 111666 Twisted Evil )

There was a clutch re-design in '12 for the stelvio, but the factory said it was an "improvement" not a required thing. if you look at the parts book you can see the superseded and additional part added to the assy.

will let ya know what we find, am dying to look in there better than the endoscope

I was just getting ready to service the swing arm bearings, so I guess it will be a good time to look at the drive shaft and see if the u joints are free...This Stella always had a little more vibration than any other I have ridden... I have been on 3 ntxs and 2 pre-ntx bikes. wonder if it was related.
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pauldaytona
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PostSubject: Re: Big Girl Blew Me   Sun Jun 15, 2014 4:16 pm

No, thats is a wrong number, won't find it.
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Uzidzit
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PostSubject: Re: Big Girl Blew Me   Sun Jun 22, 2014 10:36 pm

Got back to town and messed with it a bit on the center stand...

The rear wheel lock is still a mystery, and the exact cause is as well but it is narrowed down a lot now. the chunks were clutch plate friction material, and some bits of metal. It seems for all the world that the throw out assy came partially dis-sasembled / apart and some bits of itself worked their way through between the pressure plate and the disk.

It will start now and run through the gears on the stand, but the clutch is making a horrendous scraping howling sound, (in or out ) when i hit the starter after checking that it seemed free, by hand it sounded like a sub machine gun for just a brief second then just went to the screeching right before I hit the kill switch

Pretty sure the thompson sound was a piece of the throwout assy rolling between the pressure plate and clutch disk,

Also no explanation for the blown out inspection plug.

It will transmit power to the rear wheel now, when started for the second time... almost wondering if the whole clutch assy did not come loose and one of the screw heads is what migrated through the system.

sounds like a screech owl caught in a tractors nuts Laughing 
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PostSubject: Re: Big Girl Blew Me   Sun Jun 22, 2014 11:03 pm

Throw out assembly is at the back of the gearbox by the swingarm. No way for it to get anywhere near the clutch.


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Sounds like the friction plate has grenaded.
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Uzidzit
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PostSubject: Re: Big Girl Blew Me   Mon Jun 23, 2014 5:34 am

Pete Roper wrote:
Throw out assembly is at the back of the gearbox by the swingarm. No way for it to get anywhere near the clutch.


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Sounds like the friction plate has grenaded.

I was 3/4 asleep when i posted that, sorry the other end of throwout assy which is I guess the pressure assy... the assy that seems to have come unglued is within the flywheel / spring plate, could have been that flat plate and circular clip, maybe a cush spring shattered or got loose in there and got chewed up. i have had a cush spring in an old beemer break into bits and completely eat a clutch. maybe a flywheel mounting bolt broken or fell out (kinda big to go through there but)

I was looking at an original assy from a stelvio yesterday and the up graded part has a much thicker mounting boss, at the hole pattern where it bolts to the crank....This leads me to wonder the first thought most people would have after seeing that would be that the original was weak and it needed to be stiffer.....

My bet would be that the original flywheel is so thin that there is inadequate/ barely bolt Tension at assembly to assure a good friction joint, and if not done with just perfect technique, and locktite (which is difficult to reliably and consistently apply in production), that joint is prone to loosening. or I had a fastener head come off and work through the assy

definatly metal between the clutch plates and pressure plates......a few broken rivits balling up and going though? The milling on the plate could allow this to happen I guess as the cross grooves go over rivit locations on the plate I looked at... oh well it goes in on thurs... for what will be at least 2-3mths.
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ghezzi
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PostSubject: Re: Big Girl Blew Me   Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:50 am

Would it be inappropriate to say...................
photos or it didn't happen?
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PostSubject: Re: Big Girl Blew Me   Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:04 am

ghezzi wrote:
Would it be inappropriate to say...................
photos or it didn't happen?
Would it be appropriate to say
"it aint out of the frame and has not been split yet, "
PLEASE READ THE ABOVE SLOWLY AND CAREFULLY, so YOU GET IT

IT is going to riders hill in Ga on thurs, Ian gets the pleasure of splitting it in due course when I see you will or maybe not(if I do not post the pics or the repair bill to piaggio you can live assured it can't happen to an 8v) right now all I can see is through 2 small holes, and got to spend a total of about 4 hrs with it...and that included towing home some of us do not enjoy a life of leisure in a socialist paradise tongue 

you can see a pic of the ring gear through the inspection hole in the sm, look at that one mine just looks a lot dirtier, very little to see through the starter galley either. the broken shit is inside the assembly and some bits made it out into the bottom of the case I can see the chunks with a thin borescope but can't get to them

on the plus side there is a new Stelvio they sold that is using a liter of oil every 300 miles, they said it has used 6 liters since new, with no evidence of use...If any one remembers where that thread is let me know we have a good idea not of the root cause but of how to prove it to piaggio, and plan to track down the root cause.
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PostSubject: Re: Big Girl Blew Me   Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:40 am

Is this the one
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Uzidzit
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PostSubject: Re: Big Girl Blew Me   Tue Jun 24, 2014 3:31 pm

Thanks, did you see the second to the last post (it was my note to him to call Ian, at 11:something sunday night)  I found it told him and did not remember this morning......

Damn I am getting senile... shit

I am going to blame it on the week traveling for work, and the 500ish mile day on the strom on sunday,,,,,,what were we talking about?   Burbon?   Sand crabs?   chain maintence on the GRiSO?.....oh yeah coolant chane interval for the quatrovalvole...Yeah that was it.... Damn Rolling Eyes 

I better get a spot, before I leave for out west this weekend, or leave breadcrumbs or something I may not remember where home is Question
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Uzidzit
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PostSubject: Re: Big Girl Blew Me   Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:36 am

Just an update according to Piaggio this is normal wear..so you all can expect your clutch plate to "wear out" dramatically and suddenly...I guess guzzi has figured out how to make a plate that does not wear down to the rivits and start slipping and fail gently like every other dry clutch plate theirs just normally explode and fragment normally at some normal interval between 7500mi and ? I only say 3500mi because that is the lowest milage I have found a disintegrated plate in a stelvio.

The cool part is it seems that they cannot supply the clutch assy at any price.
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PostSubject: Re: Big Girl Blew Me   Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:48 am

More fucking BS from 'Above'.

I have no idea why they think playing the 'Acceptable Wear' card is expected to fly!

Mate, I have an early clutch in stock, this is the heavy spring unit, but if you want it its yours for cost.

Pete
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Uzidzit
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PostSubject: Re: Big Girl Blew Me   Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:33 am

I have a "meeting" with someone at piaggio Na tomorrow so we will see how it goes...the real pisser of this is, this particular ntx has been a problem child. I made it 80 miles the day I bought it new till it died the first time, and I slept at the side of the road and hitchhiked to a police station the next morning to get it towed. (yeah bum fuck nowhere with no cell service) pissed me off that no body stole the thing off the side of the road while I left it there. Mad 

I will let you know on the clutch tues/wed. send me a pm with the cost It seems that Piaggio has no complete assys. avail any where right now., but will find out for sure after I speak to the guy tomorrow.

this Stelvio I love but It if I am honest has only been able to be ridden 6-7 months of the 2 years I have had it. I really made the mistake of being a good customer to a dealer and people I like, and neglecting to take the just buisness attitude with this ntx and just force Piaggio to buy it back, and that was before this issue
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Canyon Carver
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PostSubject: Re: Big Girl Blew Me   Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:10 pm

What a horrible scenario! This is the way a company deals with it's engineering failures?
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Uzidzit
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PostSubject: Re: Big Girl Blew Me   Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:16 am

have another today a bit higher up the food chain, I actually am more concerned with how they are handling two other claims right now for friends of mine.  one Guzzi and one aprilia they have much bigger issues are getting shitted all over.  I am in a hard spot because I pretty much convinced them to get what they really wanted (both Piaggio owned) rather than third choice from Suzi, in one case and Mother in the other...and Piaggio is burning them bad

I can do the clutch job, and chalk it up to a lesson that nothing has changed....they can't afford their total losses


Last edited by Uzidzit on Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:18 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spellin)
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PostSubject: Re: Big Girl Blew Me   Today at 11:50 am

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