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 Cost of 1st Service GRiSO 8V SE; your experience?

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RR Bob
Montanarolo
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Age : 64

PostSubject: Cost of 1st Service GRiSO 8V SE; your experience?   Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:18 pm

Steak: I think I posted this in the wrong section; feel free to move it to the tech forum/ sorry!

I'll post up a *proper intro thread about myself a bit later, but first wanted to see how much you have been paying for the First Service in your areas.  In my experience with Italian motorcycles, I've paid as little as $225- maybe $275 on certain Ducatis and even a
Calif Vintage Guzzi.  My dealer is telling me my new GRiSO ('13 SE Diavolo Nero) is going to be near $400!

I realize it is a complex, technical machine, 4 valve heads, etc.  But this seems a bit excessive, am I wrong?

The Manual calls for a valve check, yes.  Other than fluids, check bolt tensions, a general go-over; maybe they are doing
more than what the manual calls for?  It is a shop with a fairly good local rep...

Are they checking the throttle bodies, synciing, doing other mysterious things with the "Guzzi" laptop analyzer?  

Eventually, I'll take over maintanance myself, but for warranty etc. I was going to let the selling shop do #1 for sure.

And they do not use the suggested 10W-60 in this shop- they use motorcycle-specific 20W-50.  I was going to buy
the Agip 10W-60 and give it to them to put in.  Thanks in advance for any comments; I want to pay them fair $$ but
I've never heard of a first service on any brand of motorcycle as high as $400.

Bob
*  Retired railroader (Amtrak on board service) 61 years old.
   25+ motorcycles, multiple brands.  Current operating fleet:
   '13 GRiSO SE Diavolo Nero
   '09 Calif Vintage
   '09 Multistrada 1100S
    2 older Harleys that don't get ridden much
    Married to Cynthia// no kids // that's the nutshell!
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Steak
L'Innominato
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Posts : 1905
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Age : 51

PostSubject: Re: Cost of 1st Service GRiSO 8V SE; your experience?   Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:43 pm

Railroad B, that's right in line with what 1st service runs you up here at Moto International in Seattle.  I'll try to find my receipt and post up here for comparison.

Off the top of my head, here is what usually gets performed:


  • Replacement of fluids (roughly 4L of full-synth 10W-60, 1L of full-synth 80W-90 gear oil for tranny and CARC)
  • Replacement of oil filter
  • Reset valve clearances to factory specifications
  • Balance throttle bodies
  • Reset throttle position sensor (TPS) via "high tech Piaggio diagnostic unit"
  • Inspect, gap and reinstall spark plugs
  • Inspect brake wear and function
  • Check suspension travel and function
  • Check for unsuspected bearing wear
  • Check and fill tire pressures to spec.
  • General inspection - fasteners, electrical, CPU, etc.


There is ABSOLUTELY no reason for that shop to not replace your fluids with anything other than that which is called for in the manual, expressly full-synthetic 10W-60.  This is readily available from AGIP, MOTUL, MOTOREX, Redline, and even LIQUI-MOLY from NAPA.  This motor is picky about the oil, it's not worth going out of spec.  Go with your plan of buying the correct fluids and bringing them in if they won't stock it for service.  WTF is with that anyway?  Assuming this is an Piaggio authorized service provider...

Here is a good source for MOTUL 7100 10W60 that I use: Powersports Superstore

These are all maintenance tasks that can be easily done by the home mechanic.  TPS reset can be managed inexpensively with a laptop and software (Technoresearch, Ducatidiag, Guzzidiag) and some inexpensive cabling.  Guzzis are very easy to work on compared to your Ducati experiences.  I've always gone to the dealer for first service, mostly for any potential warranty issues.  From then on I've always serviced myself.

So yeah, the initial service can seem a bit expensive, but I've just considered it as cheap insurance if anything was a little off coming from the factory.

- SD

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2012 MOTO GUZZI GRiSO 1200SE

2013 MOTO GUZZI STELVIO 1200NTX - Orange Blossom Special
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Steak
L'Innominato
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PostSubject: Re: Cost of 1st Service GRiSO 8V SE; your experience?   Tue Jul 02, 2013 6:18 pm

Here is a summary of my first service at Moto International here in Seattle:

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So it seems my memory was suspect. Your quoted service cost is about 25% higher than that we are paying up here at Moto International. Hope this helps.

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2012 MOTO GUZZI GRiSO 1200SE

2013 MOTO GUZZI STELVIO 1200NTX - Orange Blossom Special
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RR Bob
Montanarolo
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Join date : 2013-06-01
Age : 64

PostSubject: Re: Cost of 1st Service GRiSO 8V SE; your experience?   Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:49 am

A big thank you Steve for the replies and copies of your Service Order.

$304 sounds reasonable for the amount of work done. $400 perhaps a little on the high side, as I thought. That thing about this shop not using the specified lubricants and still charging over top dollar! is really rankling to me.  Once I was told "10W-60 is too hard to get." Another excuse they gave me a few years ago for not bothering with 10W-60 is that we live in a "hot clime."  Yeah that's true, but earlier this winter 2013 I saw some 37 degree mornings, so I'd say there is absolutely a reason to run the specified 10W-60 even without considering the FACT that this is the SPECIFIED oil.  I believe they use a "one oil fits all" approach; they always gave me a Maxima 20W-50 MC blend, NOT full synthetic in every bike I've bought from them.  Over the years I have bought 8 bikes from them; some were traded back or sold on the outside market.  I'd say I was one of their "best" customers, wouldn't you? Neutral 

I will "walk the correct oil in" to them.  I'll tell ya, if I feel that I am not going to get a First Service that is up to the levels that Moto International provides, I will just go elsewhere.  There are about 3-4 Guzzi specific shops within a 150 mile radius of where I live.  I won't go into naming all these shops here in this posting, but I can figure out who the "good guys" are pretty easily.


RR Bob
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Cage Free
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PostSubject: Re: Cost of 1st Service GRiSO 8V SE; your experience?   Tue Jul 23, 2013 10:10 am

When negotiating on my bike I had them throw in the first service to close the deal..I really didnt researched what the first service included until it was time to have it done...When I picked up the bike I asked about what had been done and what brand of 10-60 they had used. They said because it was very hard to get they used 10-50 full syn bel ray instead of 10-60 and that this is what they always use in the Guzzis and have had no problems.. After reading about how important the right oil is to the 8V motors this really pissed me off that they obviously hadnt done their homework and disregarded what the factory recomends because of the cost and inconvience of obtaining the correct oil....Dicks... I figured no sense in arguing with them about this as they obviously were not going to change their mind or my oil again so I took the bike home and ordered the correct oil and changed it myself.. The invoice for the service was $275.. which seemed on the cheap side considering what was called for by the factory.. I dont trust that they did all that was called for and wont ever buy a bike or have service done there again...Dicks...GP motorcycles San Diego
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Cost of 1st Service GRiSO 8V SE; your experience?   Fri Aug 02, 2013 6:31 am

I remain convinced that the biggest factor concerning the oil used in the 8V motors is not the actual viscosity specification but the fact it must be a fully manufactured, man made, full ester synthetic. The reason for this is that the heat that it has to handle when performing its cooling function of the exhaust valve seats and the crowns of the pistons will quickly degrade a mineral or synthetic-fortified oil.

Unfortunately the myth persists with some owners and mechanics that because it still *Looks* similar to the old pushrod engine it is essentially the same donk. It isn't, nor can it be treated the same. The same is true f the new 1400cc lump in the California which has once again undergone some radical changes in the cylinder head design but it still 'Looks like a Guzzi'.

Pete
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RR Bob
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Join date : 2013-06-01
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PostSubject: Re: Cost of 1st Service GRiSO 8V SE; your experience?   Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:23 pm

Cage Free wrote:
When negotiating on my bike I had them throw in the first service to close the deal..I really didnt researched what the first service included until it was time to have it done...When I picked up the bike I asked about what had been done and what brand of 10-60 they had used.  They said because it was very hard to get they used 10-50 full syn bel ray instead of 10-60  and that this is what they always use in the Guzzis and have had no problems.. After reading about how important the right oil is to the 8V motors this really pissed me off that they obviously hadnt done their homework and disregarded what the factory recomends because of the cost and inconvience of obtaining the correct oil....Dicks... I figured no sense in arguing with them about this as they obviously were not going to change their mind or my oil again so I took the bike home and ordered the correct oil and changed it myself.. The invoice for the service was $275.. which seemed on the cheap side considering what was called for by the factory.. I dont trust that they did all that was called for and wont ever buy a bike or have service done there again...Dicks...GP motorcycles San Diego
Cage, this is my dealer also.  My GRiSO is almost due for the First Service.  I am thinking long and hard where to take it; I know
there is a shop up in Orange County; forget their name.  So, they gave you Bel Ray full syn 10-50.  Not specified.  A few years back, I believe they may have used some of the Maxima 20-50s semi syn in various Ducatis I've owned.  No matter where I go, I want the specified 10-60 AGIP or equivalent.  I have to say GP has been generally straight with me as far as I know, in deals and service.

Their owner had a terrible accident 1-2 years ago and must use a wheelchair and I have contributed some money to his medical expense fund, and genuinely like Paul as a friend.  The shop is undergoing some other changes; their long time sales manager Josh has recently left for another position.  I do like Jesse in the Svc. Dept but I miss Hermann, who was a very crack technician they once employed in the old location on G St..  I believe Hermann went to South Bay Ducati.  At any rate, I want a competent service on my GRiSO, wherever I go.
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PostSubject: On the subject of oil...   Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:52 am

I've put quite a few km's on the beast this summer and as a result have changed the oil twice. I've done it myself as the local dealer here also claims that the recommended 10-60 oil is too difficult to get and therefore only uses 10-50 in all MG's, Ducati's etc. Being so close to the border I am able to order and pick up from the US. As such, I just got 10 ltrs (about 2 gallons for you yanks) of Liqui-moly 10w60 full synthetic delivered for $77.00 USD. This oil's API rating is much higher than the minimum specified by MG in the manual and is the exact viscosity. Seems like a no-brainer. Why a dealership feels they must charge 10 - 25 bucks a litre for friggin oil is beyond me. They also charge $29 .99 for a filter. My question is, do any of you use the commonly available billet aluminum/ reusable oil filters? The ebay examples I've seen claim direct applicability for the GRiSO, and a 35 micron filtering capability, all with an infinitely reusable (wash with solvent) metal screen filter. They are about $100. The local auto parts store also carries a Fram motorcycle filter with a part number cross reference to the MG filter the dealer provides. It looks identical other than being a couple of mils shorter. Can anybody tell me if this Fram filter is a good or bad idea? Just tired of being robbed.....
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PostSubject: Just thought I'd add...   Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:56 am

...that many M series Bimmers (cars) require 10w60 synthetic also. How the hell can it be difficult for a dealership to find?
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PostSubject: Re: Cost of 1st Service GRiSO 8V SE; your experience?   Today at 8:22 pm

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