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 Dear Piaggio...

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rustyrotor
Tanabuso
Tanabuso


Posts : 76
Join date : 2014-05-20

PostSubject: Re: Dear Piaggio...   Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:06 pm

Tocino, I ran the bike with the factory boat anchor, er, muffler for a while, and no, it didnt seem to make any diference, except the bike turned left better. Not. Seriously, what a great piece of...ballast. Turns out the spark plug did not break. I had trouble getting it out, And when i did what I found is that the socket was failing to get a good grab because the plug was too long. Why? Because something in the core of the cap melted onto the plug, looks like ceramic, but like hell you're getting ceramic melting temps there. Must be plastic. Need to post a pick. Is there a how to? I cant find it.

There is an aftermarket air filter in place, i put it there as an early experiment. Also, if my sucky memory serves, the OEM had something weird about it, like a crushed or creased
lip, which would allow unfiltered air to get in. Also took the lid off the airbox, liked the sound, hated the performance as it seemed to just make it all worse, contribute to the surge.
Breakfast is in Jefferson, near Harper's Ferry, Sun AM, just some greasy spoon and some old guys in suspenders. Plus some non-guzzi folks as well. There's a post on wildguzzi.
Love to talk to you about Guzzidiag. If PR recommends it...

Beets, the Daes muffler has a short cat section ahead of the can. Thanks for the offer, lets talk.
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ghezzi
Fra Cristoforo
Fra Cristoforo


Posts : 1692
Join date : 2014-05-22
Age : 59

PostSubject: Re: Dear Piaggio...   Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:53 pm

Hey Rusty, post your photos first on photobucket or whatever host you use.
Look at the tool bar in the white 'Post Reply' box.
Fourth box, second icon looks like a TV screen with a green ball at its bottom r/h corner.
Click on that .................................

I wanna see ya pic
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http://www.biketowbrisbane.com.au
Steak
L'Innominato
L'Innominato


Posts : 1905
Join date : 2013-05-28
Age : 51

PostSubject: Re: Dear Piaggio...   Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:03 am

rustyrotor wrote:
Need to post a pick. Is there a how to? I cant find it.

I post all of the forum tutorials in the Who You Is? section... [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Scroll down to the 5th entry and you'll learn everything you need to know.

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

2012 MOTO GUZZI GRiSO 1200SE

2013 MOTO GUZZI STELVIO 1200NTX - Orange Blossom Special
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http://www.grisoghetto.com
beetle
GRiSO
GRiSO


Posts : 3959
Join date : 2013-09-30

PostSubject: Re: Dear Piaggio...   Fri Aug 22, 2014 3:07 am

rustyrotor wrote:

Beets, the Daes muffler has a short cat section ahead of the can. Thanks for the offer, lets talk.


If your keen and are going to catch up with tocino for a breakfast ride, maybe I can send him some maps (he may already have the ones I'm thinking of). If he's able to load one for you it may help a long way into getting you in love with the GRiSO. A well sorted GRiSO is the perfect motorcycle, and we want you to  I love you your GRiSO.


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Uzidzit
Tiradritto
Tiradritto


Posts : 325
Join date : 2013-12-01

PostSubject: Re: Dear Piaggio...   Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:12 am

I am going to give the alternate plug cap removal, insert a long thin flat screwdriver just above the exhaust header and pry up, it will pop off (this is a requirement if you change the caps to the straight ones, it also keeps the soft sillycone factory ones from tearing) ps the good old cr8e ngk (with an adapter off any old plug) works just fine and costs $3.00 (so does the cr8ek for $7). the pmbr8b is avail from amazon for 13-17$ anytime...or $60 from aprillia

... you should have my stelvio Mad The GRiSO is getting there as well at this point...fuck my 81 ducati 600sl pantah is starting to look like the gold standard of reliability.

That said I am in east TN (knoxville) and would be willing to help you get the thing sorted and tuned
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tocino
Nibbio
Nibbio


Posts : 556
Join date : 2014-06-21

PostSubject: Re: Dear Piaggio...   Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:43 am

rustyrotor wrote:
There is an aftermarket air filter in place, i put it there as an early experiment. Also, if my sucky memory serves, the OEM had something weird about it, like a crushed or creased
lip, which would allow unfiltered air to get in. Also took the lid off the airbox, liked the sound, hated the performance as it seemed to just make it all worse, contribute to the surge.

Yep - and I'll bet the filter you've got is adding to the stock snatchiness - mine was pretty bad when I got it new, really takes the fun out of the bike.


rustyrotor wrote:
Breakfast is in Jefferson, near Harper's Ferry, Sun AM, just some greasy spoon and some old guys in suspenders. Plus some non-guzzi folks as well. There's a post on wildguzzi.

Ahh - I think I've heard of this before, I think they do it monthy - I'll look into it, but this Sunday might be tough (gf was on travel last week, this week and next so I might be doing "quality time" Smile)


rustyrotor wrote:
Love to talk to you about Guzzidiag. If PR recommends it...

That foul-mouthed guy, I mean - definitely!  Razz 

The nice thing is how easy it is to change maps, so we can download your current map (most likely stock but you never know) in case you're unhappy with anything and want to restore things to as they were.

It's not 100% science at this point as it seems the stepper motor and other things sometimes cause side effects (occasional high idle when engine for some, rough warm-up depending on air temp / humidity, but nothing major that makes the bike not run). Mark has been doing lots of updates as he gets feedback - all the aftermarket exhaust seems to affect fueling differently - so I'm sure he's got an answer to your woes.

Also, I've just got a fancy O2 sensor / data acquisition dongle and Mark is working on a plug to connect it to the GRiSO wiring which will allow data logging to an Android phone (yes, these are modern times) that will allow us to really measure what's going on to hopefully develop the best maps. After I get it working on mine (Zard) if you're game we could plug it into your bike to try and build the best map for yours (Daes + aftermarket filter). But that's future stuff, I'm guessing something that Mark already has will help a lot.
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rustyrotor
Tanabuso
Tanabuso


Posts : 76
Join date : 2014-05-20

PostSubject: Re: Dear Piaggio...   Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:58 am

It all sound wonderful, albeit mysterious...let's go!
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tocino
Nibbio
Nibbio


Posts : 556
Join date : 2014-06-21

PostSubject: Re: Dear Piaggio...   Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:08 pm

Rusty - I PM'd you.
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beetle
GRiSO
GRiSO


Posts : 3959
Join date : 2013-09-30

PostSubject: Re: Dear Piaggio...   Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:43 pm

Tocino is right, if you can get a good stock filter, stick it in. Pete and I are both highly vocal about the factory airbox and filter being more than adequate for the 8V. Do a search for 'rock strainer' here or on WG.  Cool 
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rustyrotor
Tanabuso
Tanabuso


Posts : 76
Join date : 2014-05-20

PostSubject: Re: Dear Piaggio...   Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:38 pm

I may still have the original paper item, will search. So I begs the question: Why is the OEM paper element better?
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beetle
GRiSO
GRiSO


Posts : 3959
Join date : 2013-09-30

PostSubject: Re: Dear Piaggio...   Fri Aug 22, 2014 3:25 pm

The stock element restricts the flow to 'just right' for an unmodified engine. More air isn't required - the factory map can't cope and my maps aren't designed for them.
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rustyrotor
Tanabuso
Tanabuso


Posts : 76
Join date : 2014-05-20

PostSubject: Re: Dear Piaggio...   Fri Aug 22, 2014 3:45 pm

Well, lets hope i didnt toss it...though given the state of the junkyard erm garage, it may be 2016 before I can find it. Restricting air flow is easy. How about if I just lay a business card on it for now?
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beetle
GRiSO
GRiSO


Posts : 3959
Join date : 2013-09-30

PostSubject: Re: Dear Piaggio...   Fri Aug 22, 2014 3:49 pm

Hehe. You'll be OK with the rock strainer, but it won't perform quite like it should. Hell, if it runs better than it has, it's a victory ain't it?  Very Happy 
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rustyrotor
Tanabuso
Tanabuso


Posts : 76
Join date : 2014-05-20

PostSubject: Re: Dear Piaggio...   Fri Aug 22, 2014 3:51 pm

Been down so long, it all looks like up to me.
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Pete Roper
GRiSO
GRiSO


Posts : 3769
Join date : 2013-05-29
Age : 59

PostSubject: Re: Dear Piaggio...   Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:25 pm

The whole issue of air filters is one of the most aggravating ones I come across.

Everybody you meet talks about how restrictive the stock filter is. Good God! If it were so awful how come one slightly smaller works just dandy in a 155HP RSV-4!

There's also the fact that with the 8V a certain amount of restriction is actually required as it helps with the charge transition issues at some RPM.

Very early in the piece I drilled holes in the lid of my airbox to experiment. All it achieved was to make the bike vibrate more, robbed it of top end and, like an open pipe, stuck a bomb crater in the midrange.

The other thing is that the reason they are less restrictive is because the bloody things don't stop anything much smaller than a baby elephant! The way labyrinth filters like the K&N work is by forcing the air to zig-zag through the elements that are coated in oil to make them sticky. The inertia of solid particles means they are less willing to change direction so they end up getting stuck on the oily surface as the air molecules rush on. This is true, but plenty of smaller particles will negotiate the labyrinth and go on to damage the engine.

They're an un-necessary crock and I strongly advise against them. The stock filter works well, flows well and is so cheap that even a Guzzisti can purchase one without splintering the stem of his corn-cob pipe! What's not to like?

Pete

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RightD
Squinternotto
Squinternotto


Posts : 9
Join date : 2014-06-13

PostSubject: Re: Dear Piaggio...   Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:29 am

rustyrotor wrote:
Breakfast is in Jefferson, near Harper's Ferry, Sun AM, just some greasy spoon and some old guys in suspenders. Plus some non-guzzi folks as well. There's a post on wildguzzi.

Quick heads-up that the MD Guzzi breakfast at Ingrams Diner was last week. There were 3 Grisos in attendance, as well as a variety of older beasts. :-)

Good luck with getting yours sorted.

- RightD
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mark111
Grignapoco
Grignapoco


Posts : 187
Join date : 2014-04-23

PostSubject: Re: Dear Piaggio...   Sun Aug 24, 2014 1:01 am

Rusty,
You wrote:
"Since then the bike has gone through three speedo sensors, an oil pressure sensor which was a bitch to diagnose, and which the Piaggidiots supplanted with a 'kit' that requires you cut the wiring harness and install an adapter in the block. MPH gave me a part # for a BMW automotive pressure sensor that I sourced locally, cheap, and is working perfectly so far. Thank you MPH."


Do you recall the part number for the BMW oil pressure sensor, I had 2 fail on my old bike so I would like to have an alternative as a replacement for any future issues.

Mark
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DungeonMaster
GRiSO
GRiSO


Posts : 1163
Join date : 2013-11-26
Age : 53

PostSubject: Re: Dear Piaggio...   Sun Aug 24, 2014 7:12 am

Can I ask?/
(don't beat me too hard)

Is the BMW sensor lower price than the MG??

I'm headed out to the garage to look at/check my sensor now.

DM
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rustyrotor
Tanabuso
Tanabuso


Posts : 76
Join date : 2014-05-20

PostSubject: Re: Dear Piaggio...   Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:28 pm

Sorry for the delay...Here is the BM#: 12 61 7 620 512

I forget the details but there also appears to be some confusion re the original part #. Typical Gooz.
The BMW unit so far has worked fine and not crapped the bed. Does it match the Gooz pressure parameters exactly? Dunno, I trust MPH. Does it look IDENTICAL to OEM? No. There are differences.
It fits, it works. Sofarcrossyourfingershopetodie. I have a Harper's price of almost $28. BMW cost...$12?
You'll save enough for a set of suspenders.
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rustyrotor
Tanabuso
Tanabuso


Posts : 76
Join date : 2014-05-20

PostSubject: Re: Dear Piaggio...   Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:44 pm

Ok, so who the fuck stole my Lemonny-ass bike?

I don't really care, since you left a better one in its place. Haven't yet had a chance to give it a truly proper neck-wringing, but let's not diddle around:

It's a completely different, and far better machine. Dark and stormy night vs. blue sky day.

I have to surmise that it has never, not from day one, not in Mad-ello, had halfway decent spark.
And the throttle cables look to have never, not once, been adjusted. They were sitting at the top of their travel, and identical, plus no tool marks.

So just to be sure I didn't cock it up, all I did was loosen the lock nut,  tug on the cable to get a sense of how much slop there is, and take it up. Repeat. Lock it down. Good? If wrong, Symptoms?

Tomorrow I'll try to get the pictures up. Bottom line? At some point the RH plug got hot enough to melt the cap's guts, which oozed down the silicone sleeve and glued itself to the plug, leaving the conductive bits unprotected.

Do I have a cooling problem as well? Last oil change was black, black, black, with just a few miles. Stank cooked.
We do get some serious heat around here. I've definitely ridden it at the 100F/38C mark.
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mark111
Grignapoco
Grignapoco


Posts : 187
Join date : 2014-04-23

PostSubject: Re: Dear Piaggio...   Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:52 pm

Rusty,
Thanks for that.
Not worried about the price as it was never likely to a large amount of money. More concerned about the reliability of the part as you tend to crap yourself when an engine oil warning light comes on.
To the best of my knowledge the switch is only measuring if you have sufficient oil pressure.
As long as it indicating that there is oil pressure when the engine is running it is doing it's job and you won't be left stranded in the middle of nowhere or playing Russian roulette with their engine.
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beetle
GRiSO
GRiSO


Posts : 3959
Join date : 2013-09-30

PostSubject: Re: Dear Piaggio...   Mon Aug 25, 2014 8:00 pm

rustyrotor wrote:
So just to be sure I didn't cock it up, all I did was loosen the lock nut,  tug on the cable to get a sense of how much slop there is, and take it up. Repeat. Lock it down. Good? If wrong, Symptoms?


If too tight, will idle high. Or can't reset TPS to normal 4.8/4.7

If too loose, snatchy throttle.

Quote :
Tomorrow I'll try to get the pictures up. Bottom line? At some point the RH plug got hot enough to melt the cap's guts, which oozed down the silicone sleeve and glued itself to the plug, leaving the conductive bits unprotected.

Do I have a cooling problem as well? Last oil change was black, black, black, with just a few miles. Stank cooked.
We do get some serious heat around here. I've definitely ridden it at the 100F/38C mark.

I've ridden mine at those temps. I don't know why.  Shocked   Anyhoo, the engine is good up to at least 125 degrees C (and higher I suspect). Thats engine temp, not ambient. Cool
The factory map leans out stupidly in really hot ambient temps and exacerbates the engine heating. Are your headers blue? What kind of oil? If it was dino juice, that explains it. It breaks down under heat. You must use a full synthetic oil.

Normally the GRiSO is over-cooled, so unless you have a blockage in the oil cooler, it shouldn't cook.

A local guy left his GRiSO idling for an hour (or something close to it) and it melted the wiring loom. The engine is still good and he still rides it. New loom of course. Very Happy
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rustyrotor
Tanabuso
Tanabuso


Posts : 76
Join date : 2014-05-20

PostSubject: Re: Dear Piaggio...   Mon Aug 25, 2014 9:30 pm

Very interesting.
The last change was by a dealership with a seemingly meticulous tech, fairly fresh from Piaggio.
So I hope it was synthetic. But I don't know. Synthetic now!
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Pete Roper
GRiSO
GRiSO


Posts : 3769
Join date : 2013-05-29
Age : 59

PostSubject: Re: Dear Piaggio...   Mon Aug 25, 2014 9:47 pm

If there is a major difference in how hot the different cylinders are running, even with the stock maps, then there is something awry.

Australia is famous for being hot and believe me, where both I and Beetle live it gets stinking hot in summer. If I get stuck in Canberra on a really hot day then with the factory mapping the bike would get a bit raggedy but it never melted anything, ever.

I'd suggest checking the TB balance and TPS settings for starters. If the TPS balance is off or, worse still, if the linkage rod has been fucked about with? All bets are off.

Pete
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rustyrotor
Tanabuso
Tanabuso


Posts : 76
Join date : 2014-05-20

PostSubject: Re: Dear Piaggio...   Wed Aug 27, 2014 10:27 am

Plugz...

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PostSubject: Re: Dear Piaggio...   Today at 5:55 pm

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Dear Piaggio...
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