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ghezzi
Fra Cristoforo
Fra Cristoforo


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Age : 59

PostSubject: Aftermarket cam kits   Mon Sep 01, 2014 11:38 pm

Hey Ropersan (and beetle juice), this could add a new dimension to your tuning.
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Might also be an alternative cure for the chocolate cams syndrome.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Aftermarket cam kits   Tue Sep 02, 2014 12:55 am

Wayne, way back in about 2009 I was trying to convince certain people that the only way to get appreciably more power, ( As opposed to streetable rideability.) out of the 8V would be to radically re-design/profile the cams.

At that point there was only one mob I knew of who had done ANY work on this and that was some lot in Germany, same lot that do those wicked under seat pipes I think?

Anyway, I was happy with the performance of my 8V but in the interest of people who wanted more I bought a set,($800+) and supplied exchange cores to the vendor and had them sent to a 'Guru' in So-Cal with the understanding he would use them in conjunction with a PCV/AT which would make a blistering 'Bussa slayer.

Nothing ever happened with that. AFAIK those very expensive parts I GAVE for development purposes in good faith are even now slowly rusting away in Malibu.

At the end of the day it was just another wasted grand and a half given gratis to a charlatan. My guess is that the reason they never got used is because the person who has them has no idea how to install them.

Really though I'm over it. If I want significantly more power I'll just buy a TV-4 and be done with it. I mean?? Guzzis are great 'Road' bikes but nobody hops up a combine harvester or a tank! Outright power chasing is an excercise in futility......

YOMV.

Pete
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ghezzi
Fra Cristoforo
Fra Cristoforo


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PostSubject: Re: Aftermarket cam kits   Tue Sep 02, 2014 1:04 am

I was thinking more along the lines of anybody needing new cams/flat tappets, also have an option on cam timing.

From my Bellagio starting point, if I want more power I'd just buy a GRiSO .......................
and transplant my wheels and shock.
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wardest
Grignapoco
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Age : 47

PostSubject: Re: Aftermarket cam kits   Tue Sep 02, 2014 1:05 am

Comes with a map...
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Aftermarket cam kits   Tue Sep 02, 2014 1:17 am

Some notes.

Only for flat tappet engines
8 more horses (500 rpm lower) with linear delivery
€1600

Rolling Eyes


I can do linear delivery for nought.

Why the fuck bother? Suspect





OK, you do get 5 to 10 more horses from 4000 - 6000 over stock. That may be desirable. What a Face



..maybe you would bother. Very Happy







If you believe the dyno curve.... Thumbs Up


Last edited by beetle on Tue Sep 02, 2014 1:35 am; edited 1 time in total
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Aftermarket cam kits   Tue Sep 02, 2014 1:33 am

I forgot labour. Pete, how many hours to swap the cams?
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Aftermarket cam kits   Tue Sep 02, 2014 1:49 am

Depends. Do they recommend preload shims or stronger springs for the different profile as the factory does for *Some* engines when swapping to the heavier, roller tappets?

Swapping out cams and tappets isn't that big a job. How big? Depends on what model you're talking about. GRiSO? Probably the easiest. My guess would be, without shimming or spring change, about four to five hours including the tune-up afterwards. If you have to take the heads off and disassemble them to shim the springs then there is added expense of valve guide oil seals and more labour. And if you are puting something more aggressive in then it pays to check valves and guides. So maybe you have to factor in k-lines and new valves.

When I get time I plan to swap my flats for rollers. On my A5 engine this requires shims on the inlets. In anticipation I've bought valves and the extra seals etc to go with the 'A' kit. It may not be needed. Who knows, but adding that in makes the swap a $3,000 proposition to ME, never mind a mug punter.

If I was installing a *Hotter* cam set-up in a flattie? Unless I was dealing with a very low mileage or new motor I'd be being really careful about shit like stem and guide wear.

Pete
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ghezzi
Fra Cristoforo
Fra Cristoforo


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PostSubject: Re: Aftermarket cam kits   Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:03 am

For somebody out of warranty, footing the bill personally.
How does the kit price compare to buying OEM parts.

The base kit appears to be mild cam and flat tappets. Doesn't require heavier springs.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Aftermarket cam kits   Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:49 am

The A kit


The motorkit SPORT LIGHT A kicker is composed of:

2   A camshaft - SO
4   Shorts RS
n. 8 valve springs external HT
8 valve springs internal HT
n. 8 plates upper springs, titanium RS
8   less steel plates in NI
2   HFRS rods - Surcharge - on request
1   programming injection EVO1 - Surcharge - on request


Comes with springs. You pay extra for a map. And rods should you be inclined.

From the FAQ re assembly:

The parts are replaced with those of the series, the only caveat is the transition from piston-valve control. In many engines do not have to make small niches in the pistons in other yes!



So the A kit will cost a about $2300 AUD. Add labour and you don't get much change from $3k.

Hmm. Methinks no.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Aftermarket cam kits   Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:19 am

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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Aftermarket cam kits   Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:26 am

Paint me skeptical.

Pete
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Oz1200Guzzi
Don Abbondio
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PostSubject: Re: Aftermarket cam kits   Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:32 am

Painted Pete!
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ghezzi
Fra Cristoforo
Fra Cristoforo


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PostSubject: Re: Aftermarket cam kits   Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:48 am

What colour is that? rabbit
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Aftermarket cam kits   Tue Sep 02, 2014 5:42 am

When I went out to fire up the Mighty Jimny to go to work this morning it was covered with possum shit. I reckon that 'Skeptical' is about the same sort of colour....... Very Happy

Pete
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tocino
Nibbio
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PostSubject: Re: Aftermarket cam kits   Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:41 am

Pete Roper wrote:
Guzzis are great 'Road' bikes but nobody hops up a combine harvester or a tank! Outright power chasing is an excercise in futility......

Now Pete, don't go talkin' all crazy: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

"Rumor has it that the tractor can make as much as 1,100 hp if need be, but at the 900hp level it can pull an 80-foot cultivator at an 8-mph pace (impressive even by today's standards) ... 1,472ci V-16 two-stroke diesel ... two superchargers, two turbochargers"

But does it use roller or flat tappets? cyclops
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Aftermarket cam kits   Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:09 am

Neither if its a 2 Stroke.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Aftermarket cam kits   Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:43 pm

You know, if you used these cams and the ipothesys exhaust, you could have a 120hp 130Nm GRiSO. You could pull down small buildings as well as the skins off custards!

Razz cheers Thumbs Up
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mark111
Grignapoco
Grignapoco


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PostSubject: Re: Aftermarket cam kits   Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:02 pm

Back to the original point made by Ghezzi, as an alternative to factory parts if your stock cams crap themselves.
Based on the figures above probably not cheaper and equally as important still potentially vulnerable to whatever causes the failures in the first place i.e. climatic conditions, wrong oils, poor sevicing/maintenance.
However if you were technically capable and had plenty of spare time and money they might be fun to play with.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Aftermarket cam kits   Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:31 pm

Yeah, but if your flats crap themselves you'd be mad not to go roller.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Aftermarket cam kits   Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:48 pm

My feelings entirely. Once again it comes down to the simple fact that the Guzzi 8V may well be a 'Modern' motor in many ways but it is like a camel, its a horse that has been designed by a committee.

Sure its a great thing but surely its is far better to love it for what it is rather than trying to turn it into, or pretend you can make it, into something it patently isn't?

If people want to hop up the engine and try and extract a lot more power out of it surely it would be more sensible to start by re-profiling the roller cam lobes, (Although there are significant disadvantages to the roller system over flatties.).

Why isn't this being done? Probably for a combination of the reason above and also an ignorance at least within the motorcycle tuning community of how to go about developing different profiles for roller cams. Let's face it, no other manufacturer currently uses roller tappets in a motorbike, at least I know of none? That means that people who do want to go down that path will have to look to other areas of Motorsport and engine development. Dunno what? NASCAR? Do they use roller tappets, (As opposed to roller rockers, the two are not the same.).

Once again though I see this as simply tilting at windmills. I for one am far more interested in getting a fairly stock bike to work its best, as it should, if it wasn't castrated by poor engineering solutions to environmental protection legislation which, incidentally, I'm all in favour of! If I want more? A TV-4 costs less than a GRiSO........

Pete
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pauldaytona
Fra Cristoforo
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PostSubject: Re: Aftermarket cam kits   Wed Sep 03, 2014 12:40 am

Another option: big bore, or the cali 1400 set, or a german dealer makes a set, where the cylinders are bored, and pistons made same weight as stockers. And I think millepercento or another italian firm makes a set.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Aftermarket cam kits   Wed Sep 03, 2014 3:00 am

But to get such a wide bore system to work without a lot of problems will require the twin plug heads of the 1400. That factors in a whole other level of cost.

Personally I find the constant search for greater capacity a total wank. Increasing the swept volume is a prime example of chasing the law of diminishing returns. Its the sort of argument that appeals to knuckle draggers and mouth breathers.

Even my weedy little Aprilia Mana uses twin plugs to promote better, smoother, combustion. The Cali 14 uses twin-fire below a certain point (3,500rpm?), the factory didn't do that simply for show!

There are so many different ways to skin a cat. There are also a lot of different cats out there. If this kitten doesn't float your boat? Get another kitten! Or at least don't try and groom your genetically challenged Persian show cat into some moggy brimming full of hybrid vigour!

Its up to you to decide whether the GRiSO is the inbred genetic mess or the vigourous moggy. I know which way I lean........

Pete
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PostSubject: Re: Aftermarket cam kits   Today at 9:55 am

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