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 Ahdammit's search to eliminate pesky vibrations

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Ahdammit
Tanabuso
Tanabuso


Posts : 65
Join date : 2014-08-17

PostSubject: Ahdammit's search to eliminate pesky vibrations   Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:08 am

Okay, stuck the Mistral high level pipe on, no changes to ecu. Can still has the db killer in.
Holy smokes, quite a difference. Vibration much reduced, though still there.
The bike seems to run more evenly (?) Not sure quite how to quantify it, but it just seems happier.

I wonder if there was some kind of a blockage or something in the original pipe? It sat for 3 years in the agency before I got it. Could it have corroded or gummed up inside? I dunno scratch

Next stop, when Beetle has recovered, is to remove the db killer and upload one of his maps. ( no hurry though, get better first man)
Gulp. More than a little nervous about it to be honest.
I'll print out Marks instructions and follow them to the letter when the time comes.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Ahdammit's search to eliminate pesky vibrations   Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:44 am

Have you got Guzzidiag up and running with reader and writer? If so I can easily send you the map and walk you through the upload.

Pete
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Ahdammit
Tanabuso
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PostSubject: Re: Ahdammit's search to eliminate pesky vibrations   Fri Sep 12, 2014 12:09 pm

Wow, thanks Pete. I dont know if they're up and running. They are in the computer all right though. ( I think. I dont trust this fucker. It tells me to do things I dont understand)
Tomorrow morning I'll plug in the wires and see what happens.
I actually bought 2 wires in case the smoke escaped from one set.
I know my way around a box of spanners all right, but this bits and bytes stuff frankly (probably without reason) gives me the shakes,

so, with that in mind, anybody got a carb and points conversion kit available for the 1200 8v? Laughing
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Ahdammit
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PostSubject: Re: Ahdammit's search to eliminate pesky vibrations   Wed Sep 24, 2014 3:46 am

Pete Roper wrote:
Well, I cured it.

Despite having got the balance correct as close to perfect throughout throttle travel it was still doing the hunting thing.

Dredging back through the moth-eaten piles of fluff that masquerade as my memory nowadays I remember Micha from MI making mention of a similar condition and the cure being to turn the linkage bell crank screw in half a turn or so and re-set the TPS.

Guess what............

Pete

This has me a bit concerned.
On my bike, I can have the throttles synched at idle and at 3000 rpm. Other than that, I have a bias which swings from left to right ( I think, maybe right to left, memory fade) through the rev range. I assumed it was due to the characteristics of having different induction and pipe lengths. Is this wrong?
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Ahdammit's search to eliminate pesky vibrations   Wed Sep 24, 2014 10:01 am

More likely inaccuracies in the linkage rod set-up on the flow bench. Unless the discrepancies are huge I wouldn't worry unduly, there are so many factors involved there are always going to be some discrepancy at certain points. We are talking a mass produced product after all, not some sort of state of the art, microscopically accurately finished engineering artefact!

Does it run nicely? If so, stop worrying.

Pete
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Ahdammit
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PostSubject: Re: Ahdammit's search to eliminate pesky vibrations   Sat Sep 27, 2014 2:35 am

Managed, with help, to upload Marks Mistral no dbk map last week.
The good - I know the map loaded as I now have a nice little burble pop coming down through 2700rpm on the overrun. Bah dadadaaaa Very Happy
The not so good, vibration still as bad as ever. Half an hour is all I can take before my fingers go numb.The bike feels flat still, no real urge.
Some guys have stated that they can have the front wheel going light, on this bike, no chance.
My friend was with me on his Street Triple, no way I could stay with him. This is the first time I've been out with someone else on a bike here and it was a revealing experience.
I must now conclude that my bike has a fundamental flaw somewhere. Tbs are balanced, NGK caps, tappets set. I wont have time today but I'll pull the plugs tomorrow and have a look.
At the moment frankly I'm stumped.
It has the feeling that it's running on one and a half cylinders(?) scratch
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Ahdammit's search to eliminate pesky vibrations   Sat Sep 27, 2014 2:54 am

Did you remember to reset the learning parameters?
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Ahdammit
Tanabuso
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PostSubject: Re: Ahdammit's search to eliminate pesky vibrations   Sat Sep 27, 2014 11:16 am

Hi Mark, yes as discussed on email, I hit the learning parameters button half a dozen times.
Your map has made things better, no doubt, but I will have to dig in and find out what the hell is wrong with this bike.
I had hoped that it was a simple mapping issue, however it is now obvious that this is not the case.
Tomorrow, I'll do yet another rebalance and photograph the results. Hopefully, someone will see something I'm missing. At the moment, my gut feeling is cam timing.
Or maybe faeries
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Oz1200Guzzi
Don Abbondio
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PostSubject: Re: Ahdammit's search to eliminate pesky vibrations   Sat Sep 27, 2014 2:43 pm

Might it be a "bug" like MarkIII had on one of his exhaust pipes?
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Ahdammit's search to eliminate pesky vibrations   Sat Sep 27, 2014 4:05 pm

Nah, we've already determined he has the proper headers. Well, at least the numbers stamped on them are right.

John, given the bike had horrid vibes in stock form, and gear shift was very clunky, I wonder if an experiment is in order? If you've got a way to get the rear wheel off the ground, maybe try running the revs to say 4000 in neutral, note vibes, then again with bike in say 3rd gear, and note whether vibes are worse.


Also, leave a saucer of milk beside the bike at night. The faeries may appreciate the offer and be nice to you.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Ahdammit's search to eliminate pesky vibrations   Sat Sep 27, 2014 4:10 pm

If the cam timing is out by a tooth it will run like a bucket of shit. Easy way to determine this is with a compression test. If its out one way it will run only about 120PSI. If its out e other it'll run 230! If its correct it'll be 170/180.

Pete
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Ahdammit
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PostSubject: Re: Ahdammit's search to eliminate pesky vibrations   Sun Sep 28, 2014 10:25 am

Good suggestions guys. I have ordered a compression tester, should be here in a couple of weeks. ( Nothing available here)
Mark, unfortunately I live in an apartment block just now, working on the bike in the car park is frowned upon, although I do it anyway. I'll take it to my friends place and try it there. I'm intrigued by your suggestion. Not entirely sure how I'll manage it but I'll have a bash.
Too dark outside now and pretty dusty to do much but I read online today of how the timing marks on the camshafts should be readily visible beneath the little covers. If I can get home early enough tomorrow, I'll pull the covers off and see if the timing pins are aligned with the centreline of the cylinders.
Many thanks again guys, the support and advice is greatly appreciated.

John
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Ahdammit
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PostSubject: John's search to eliminate pesky vibrations   Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:40 am

Got the bike to my friends place, almost out of gas but wanted to arrive in daylight.
Balancing-
2200rpm
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
3200rpm
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4400rpm
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
5400rpm
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
There's still a small swing, but nowhere near as bad as before. I reckon Marks map is helping here. I dont have any way to lift the bike here, but at higher revs in neutral, it was misfiring and banging in the exhaust.
scratch
Maybe I should start another thread, I dont want to clutter this up.

John


Last edited by Steak on Mon Sep 29, 2014 10:14 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Done - discussion moved to it's own thread. - Steak)
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Ahdammit
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PostSubject: Re: Ahdammit's search to eliminate pesky vibrations   Mon Sep 29, 2014 10:42 am

Cheers, here's a pic by way of thanks Very Happy
[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I'll fix this damn thing yet!
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Ahdammit's search to eliminate pesky vibrations   Mon Sep 29, 2014 2:31 pm

Misfiring and banging at higher revs? Spark problem?

I was thinking that if the cam timing is out, you'd never get the balance right. Unless...how far did you have to move the bell crank screw when balancing? Little or lots?
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tocino
Nibbio
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PostSubject: Re: Ahdammit's search to eliminate pesky vibrations   Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:58 pm

beetle wrote:
Misfiring and banging at higher revs? Spark problem?

First thing I thought of - or coil.

Maybe another case where the boot around the plug has a crack and it's arching to the cylinder head?
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Ahdammit
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PostSubject: Re: Ahdammit's search to eliminate pesky vibrations   Mon Sep 29, 2014 11:48 pm

Got the NGK SB05's but I'll check for spark tracking tonight when it's dark
Bell crank screw was maybe a turn out of alignment from memory, it was a while ago. Since, when balancing, it's just a twitch usually.
I'll also check the coil connections and pull the plugs

I thought I just was running out of gas tbh. Laughing
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Ahdammit's search to eliminate pesky vibrations   Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:01 am

What about the throttle stop screw (AKA the 'sacred screw'). Has it been touched? Make sure the paint is undisturbed.
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Ahdammit
Tanabuso
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PostSubject: Re: Ahdammit's search to eliminate pesky vibrations   Sat Oct 11, 2014 2:35 am

Paint is intact Thumbs Up
The compression tester arrived, very quickly for this part of the world.
Results as follows-
Engine cold, injectors unplugged, plugs earthed against head-
Left 135psi
Right 145psi
Engine hot, injectors unplugged, plugs earthed
Left 140psi
Right 150psi
Uh-oh Crying or Very sad
Suggestions as to what to check next - cam timing, head gasket,maybe?
Or something else? Best procedure to use?
How best to check?
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Ahdammit
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PostSubject: Re: Ahdammit's search to eliminate pesky vibrations   Sat Oct 11, 2014 2:43 am

Oh yeah, meant to say. Pulled the plugs, they're a little sooty but that's my fault. Concerns about the fuel quality here had me set the trims to plus 10, better to run a bit rich. I'll load the new map and set the correction factor lower.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Ahdammit's search to eliminate pesky vibrations   Sat Oct 11, 2014 2:48 am

You did the compression test with the throttle wide open? Yes?

Pete
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Ahdammit
Tanabuso
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PostSubject: Re: Ahdammit's search to eliminate pesky vibrations   Sat Oct 11, 2014 2:49 am

No. I'll do it again Embarassed
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Ahdammit's search to eliminate pesky vibrations   Sat Oct 11, 2014 2:52 am

Good lad. Think about what you are doing.

Pete
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Ahdammit
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PostSubject: Re: Ahdammit's search to eliminate pesky vibrations   Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:01 am

As before, THROTTLE WIDE OPEN Rolling Eyes Very Happy Engine still warm
Left 155psi
Right 160psi
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Ahdammit's search to eliminate pesky vibrations   Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:40 am

Low, not terribly low but cold cranking will usually give 175-180'ish. Hmmmm!

What are the numbers on your exhaust headers?

Pete
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PostSubject: Re: Ahdammit's search to eliminate pesky vibrations   Today at 1:41 am

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