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 Simply brilliant!

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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Simply brilliant!   Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:23 pm

Mark S, who posts here as 'Mark III', dropped in on Friday so I could walk him through Guzzidiag and upload a new map in his new, to him, Tenni.

One of the things he'd taken on board was the over-cooling issue and while I've been scratching my head and wondering how I'd go about building some sort of baffle to block off the cooler that wouldn't be too unsightly or complicated he's just got on and done it!

Made out of two pieces of that thin, rigid plastic that they make chopping boards for campers out of with two slots in and held together with self tapping screws it simply slides in to the front of the cooler and can be adjusted with a quick tug to block off anywhere from about 3/4-1/3rd of the intake. Used in conjunction with an oil temp dipstick it can be adjusted according to oil temp. Instalation takes about five seconds, removal about five seconds, adjustment, about ten seconds! It is incredibly simple, visually un intrusive and does the job of helping keep the oil temp up in cooler conditions.

Brilliant!


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Sorry for the rather crappy pics but you get the idea.

Pete
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Simply brilliant!   Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:33 pm

cheers

Top idea. Inexpensive too. That should get the red suspenders snapping!
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mark111
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PostSubject: Re: Simply brilliant!   Tue Oct 14, 2014 4:41 am

A couple of better images.
In cooler weather this has resulted in an increase to engine temp of around 10 to 20 degrees.

Not required if the temps are in the mid 20's (Celsius) or above.

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tocino
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PostSubject: Re: Simply brilliant!   Tue Oct 14, 2014 5:46 am

Nice! Is it held in place by the main shroud or is kept there in some other way?
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mark111
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PostSubject: Re: Simply brilliant!   Tue Oct 14, 2014 6:58 am

It is only about 1.5 mm thick and just pushes in between the outer case and the directional venting inside. Just cut it so it is a firm fit and it won't fall out.
Slide it in from the engine side / open end of the housing, 5 seconds to put in or remove.
I just put it under the seat if I don't need it.
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NorthBayGriso
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PostSubject: Re: Simply brilliant!   Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:18 am

Excellent! Just in time for the winter rides & commutes up here in the North!

Are there measurements we can use, templates....c'mon, some of us still use crayons to get our points across. Rolling Eyes
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mark111
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PostSubject: Re: Simply brilliant!   Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:06 am

Some basic dimensions; see the picture.
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This is NOT a precision engineered device, it is just a piece of 2mm rigid scrap plastic I had lying around the garage.
You could probably use material of 3 or 4mm thickness if you taper the edge where it pushes in to the oil cooler housing.
I cut it with a pair of scissors and the slots with a sharp knife and it is pretty rough and ready.
2 self tapers screwed in to the back sliding piece of plastic.

I would suggest you cut it slightly larger than the dimensions and trim it to fit your oil cooler housing, trial and error will get the best result.
If you can get the back piece to slide when it is installed that would be good but again not a big deal because you can just pull it out and slide it to the width you want and then reinstall it, that should take about 10 seconds.

Mark


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NorthBayGriso
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PostSubject: Re: Simply brilliant!   Wed Oct 15, 2014 2:17 pm

Again- excellent! The timing couldn't be better for us. I'll try to get something going this weekend...
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PostSubject: Re: Simply brilliant!   Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:57 am

I guess you need to keep a careful eye that the oil doesn't get too hot if you block off airflow to the cooler. I used to fly a Yak52 (air / oil cooled engine, just like the GRiSO) that had an oil cooler with adjustable air intake, but it also had an oil temp gauge in the panel so you could (needed to!) adjust the cooler gills for optimum oil temp.

There was mention of using an oil temp gauge dip stick, presumably to do this. I've never seen one of those; anyone got a link? Also, can it be easily read while riding?
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Simply brilliant!   Thu Oct 16, 2014 11:06 am

The chance of an 8V overheating in the UK are so small as to be virtually non existant. Believe me, I've been stuck in the M5 tunnel in Sydney on a 38*C day, (Imagine one of the inner rings of hell, only smellier!) and no harm befell my engine even though the oil temperature got up to over 150*C!

When Rob melted his bike's wiring and fuel pump spigot by leaving it idling for thirty years in his garage the oil was stuffed but on examination there was no other damage!

Heat won't faze the 8V, over-cooling will kill it stone dead! Use a high quality, full ester synthetic oil of the correct type and viscosity and you'll be golden.

Pete
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PostSubject: Re: Simply brilliant!   Thu Oct 16, 2014 11:10 am

Pete Roper wrote:
The chance of an 8V overheating in the UK are so small as to be virtually non existant.

Thanks Pete. So I'd be OK, especially as UK temps are now struggling to exceed 15c, to block off the oil cooler air inlet all together? I do use the correct grade full syn oil, BTW.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Simply brilliant!   Thu Oct 16, 2014 11:32 am

Well, I wouldn't recommend blocking it completely without some way of monitoring the temperature. But making something like Mark's plastic shutter is so ridiculously simple that there's no need.

As for the dipstick thermometer? They are available from a number of sources including Fleabay and are probably of varying quality to match. I bought mine from MG Cycle because Rick and Gordon are easy to deal with, speak a variant of English and I have never had any problems with their quick service. I think my stick is in fact of German origin but who knows?

As for seeing it when riding? You don't need to. The important thing is to try and keep the oil above 100 degrees. Ride, observe ambient temperature, judge riding conditions, check oil temperature, adjust shutter, ride some more, next time you stop at traffic lights or whatever glance down and re check temp. It's not as if you are trying to maintain an *Exact* temperature, you're simply trying to keep the oil hot enough to get the moisture out of it. I imagine that if our friend in Bahrain blocked his cooler off and then idled the bike around at walking pace or held it wide open across the deserts for half an hour then there might be an issue. Likewise if I set off across the Nullabor in January into a headwind, (There's always a headwind on the Nully!) with my cooler blocked I'd be asking for trouble but a little experimentation and common sense will soon garner enough data to allow you to judge roughly how much air flow should be allowed.

The other alternative would be to plumb in a thermostat but that would be complicated and costly. I simply can't see the point when a simple shutter will do the trick.

Pete
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PostSubject: Re: Simply brilliant!   Thu Oct 16, 2014 12:34 pm

Thanks Pete. I'll make a 'thingy' like Mark did - simple and effective.

Cheers

Vince
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NorthBayGriso
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PostSubject: Re: Simply brilliant!   Thu Oct 16, 2014 2:14 pm

Could one of you send out a photo of this magic dipstick? [No politicians, please!] That way, I/we will have a better idea of what to order online...
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svru
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PostSubject: Re: Simply brilliant!   Sat Oct 18, 2014 2:37 am

This is the one I have;

Dipstick HBM-Guzzi


Svein
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Simply brilliant!   Sat Oct 18, 2014 2:40 am

I think that's the same as mine but I'm really not certain. I'll see if it is branded RR tomorrow.

Pete
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mark111
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PostSubject: Re: Simply brilliant!   Sat Oct 18, 2014 5:24 am

The HMB Guzzi one is like mine,
Here is another source just make sure it is the correct version.
Any that fit a CARC bike should be ok.
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Being a short arse if I stop to check the temp when I'm on the bike I just put the sidestand down while I look so I don't over balance.
You can't see this thing when you are riding.
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NorthBayGriso
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PostSubject: Re: Simply brilliant!   Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:52 am

Perfect, for it on Ebay!  ~$85 delivered to the U.S: RR-Oil Thermometer Moto Guzzi V10, V11 Sport, 1100, GRiSO, Oil Temp Gauge, RR075
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diedel
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PostSubject: Re: Simply brilliant!   Mon Oct 20, 2014 6:31 am

Pete Roper wrote:
"… The other alternative would be to plumb in a thermostat but that would be complicated and costly. I simply can't see the point when a simple shutter will do the trick."
Pete

Hi Pete, if i remember right you already did a search for a thermostat with opening window around 100°C?
Found a source meanwhile f.y.i.:

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Dietrich
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Simply brilliant!   Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:57 am

Yup, thanks. A couple of people have sent me links to similar devices. I simply haven't had the time or inclination to follow them up. The last thermostat vendor I contacted never replied to my enquiry so I couldn't be arsed to chase it up.

Pete
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mark111
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PostSubject: Re: Simply brilliant!   Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:09 pm

Your thoughts please.
Obviously a correctly engineered thermostatic control of the engine oil would be the best solution to this issue.
My query with an aftermarket device plumbed in to the oil cooler lines is, would this restrict the oil flow to critical areas such as the underside of the pistons and around the exhaust valves.
My understanding is (correct me if I am wrong), that the oil that has run through the cooler is directed to these critical areas to reduce heat at these high stress parts of the engine.

I assume that a thermostat would increase the temp of the oil by limiting the oil flow through the coooler until it hit a predetermied figure.
This flow rate would vary as the oil temp rose and dropped off to maitain the ideal temp but would this also at the same time restrict the flow of oil to sprays / channels under the pistons and near the exhaust valves and therefore reduce the positive cooling effect of these critcal components.
Or am I wrong and these oil flows do not come from the oil cooler circuit.


Last edited by mark111 on Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Simply brilliant!   Tue Oct 21, 2014 2:12 am

No, with a thermostat the flow remains the same its just that a wax-stat in the *Box* of the unit opens at a certain temperature and continues to open until it is fully open at a certain temperature. The same amount of oil is flowed all the time but as the temperature rises above the wax-stats crack point more and more oil is directed through the cooler rather than bypassing it. It's essentially the same system as is used in a car radiator/ cooling system to help with quick warm up on a water cooled engine.

I believe that the under piston sprays are actually fed from the high pressure lubrication circuit the heads and valves though are on the cooler circuit.

Pete
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PostSubject: Re: Simply brilliant!   Today at 8:22 pm

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