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 The time is near...

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GNORTS
Tanabuso
Tanabuso


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Join date : 2013-05-29

PostSubject: The time is near...   Sun Nov 09, 2014 4:45 pm

A couple of years ago, the European parliament passed a mandate for ABS on all motorcycles over 125cc. It will become effective with the 2016 model year.

So, finally, we can look forward to a GRiSO with ABS.

Or not?

I've suffered a couple of rear lockups on the G when doing moron avoidance maneuvers. Brown shorts moments, indeed. My departed Honda ST1300 had ABS. and the morons got in my way on that bike too, and I never had that sickening moment when the rearend starts to migrate out from under me.

But then, some folks don't think much of ABS. I, for one, would like to have it. What say you all?
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DungeonMaster
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PostSubject: Re: The time is near...   Sun Nov 09, 2014 4:47 pm

I am a little worried that it is going to "do things for you" when you don't need them done but I probably don't really need to worry about that because I don't ride hard enough to create such confusion in the automation.

DM
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Grisonut
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PostSubject: Re: The time is near...   Sun Nov 09, 2014 4:58 pm

Don't need it.
In fact, I had two "Oh shit!" moments where I'm glad I didn't have it.
I'd welcome it in the rain if I had to be in a panic stop but that's about it...

Oh and also, I can't see where they'd find room on the GRiSO to mount the pump and all.
This bike is as tight as a stubborn sphincter.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: The time is near...   Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:31 pm

Not. Unlikely the GRiSO will be manufactured beyond 2015.
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GNORTS
Tanabuso
Tanabuso


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PostSubject: Re: The time is near...   Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:43 pm

beetle wrote:
Not. Unlikely the GRiSO will be manufactured beyond 2015.
It has been a long run. I have an 07, which I think was the first year in the US. Eight years, at least. When was it released in Oz?

And I've wondered, too, where they would put the ABS pump and valving. That would be a challenge.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: The time is near...   Sun Nov 09, 2014 8:46 pm

Even if they keep making them, there's no reason why it would be on every bike for every market. It's not the law here. Yet. IIRC, it was an option on the early Norges?

2006 I think. The 1100 that is.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: The time is near...   Sun Nov 09, 2014 9:53 pm

Manufacture of G11's began in 2005 and ceased in 2007 with some still being sold in some markets as a 2008 model.

G12 was first built in 2007 but first 'Overseas' release was in 2008 and it continues to this day.

I fear that 2015 May well be the final year for the GRiSO, mainly due to the difficulty of fitting ABS. No matter, it hasn't been a bad trot. The sad thing is that they are beginning to grow in popularity! It seems a shame to have to put it to bed just as people are waking up to its promise.

Pete
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plantboy
Don Abbondio
Don Abbondio


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PostSubject: Re: The time is near...   Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:25 pm

Pete Roper wrote:
........ The sad thing is that they are beginning to grow in popularity! It seems a shame to have to put it to bed just as people are waking up to its promise.

Pete

If you are right Pete, I guess it means our GRiSOs are likely to become desirable 'instant classic' cult bikes, sought after by hipsters looking for an alternative to the R90T and its ilk.
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ghezzi
Fra Cristoforo
Fra Cristoforo


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PostSubject: Re: The time is near...   Mon Nov 10, 2014 12:02 am

I see electrickery as "Play Station" type stuff.
When I used to race my daughter (9 year old) on the play station with GT3, she was set up with all the auto driver aids available, while I had to compete with no aids, just my own skill (?).

Kristen could set fast lap times but developed no skills as she relied on the electronics to get her out of trouble. As a result she never developed any concept of control.

Now she is 20 years old, licensed and driving with one wreck to her credit so far (no injuries), and just like her mother, still has no freakin' idea about proper driving technique or skill.

ABS will not protect you from following too close, eating McDonalds and talking on the phone.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: The time is near...   Mon Nov 10, 2014 12:28 am

I'm torn on this. My Mana GT in the US has ABS, as had the Cali 14 that I owned. I used to Poo-Poo the idea of ABS on a bike, after all it won't stop you lowsiding which is the commonest braking fail.

With the Cali I never got it to kick in in any way that was useful and believe me, with the Cali, a huge lumbering barge of a thing that makes a GRiSO look like a rapier, you'd hope that ABS would be useful, especially on surfaces with a low coefficient of friction. I actually found it counter productive.

As a contrast I had a couple of *Moments* on the Mana, a considerably lighter and certainly more nimble bike, and the ABS did exactly what it said it would do on the box. I found it a useful edition to the arsenal of *Stuff* on the bike. Certainly more useful than 'Rain' mode!

The bottom line though is there is no substitute for skill. Both active, like ABS, and passive, like airbags, safety devices are useful but the problem is that people think they are a substitute for actually understanding how a vehicle works. The way driving and riding is actually taught today is actively designed to never allow the laws of physics to demonstrate their infinite powers! That's fine. Until you end up in a situation where the laws of physics take over, then these 'Drivers' and 'Roders' have nothing, and carnage ensues.

Unfortunately you can't legislate or protect against stupid! Or even just ignorant!!!

Pete
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: The time is near...   Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:30 am

+1 Pete.

All this shite they put on new cars is a good example. Reverse parks itself, auto braking gizmo, blind spot alarms. They're creating a generation of unskilled drivers. Why brake or look in my mirrors when the car does it for me?

I'm not saying ABS is a bad thing, but at the risk of being called a pretentious prick living in the '70's, I would rather see better riders than ABS. I would rather see stuff like better calipers and discs, radial master cylinders and the like that provide better feel and braking than a device that does it for me.

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ghezzi
Fra Cristoforo
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PostSubject: Re: The time is near...   Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:37 am

Hey, you were never pretentious, just pontificating, right?
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little750
Grignapoco
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PostSubject: Re: The time is near...   Mon Nov 10, 2014 1:57 am

+1 Pete and Beetle
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ghezzi
Fra Cristoforo
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PostSubject: Re: The time is near...   Mon Nov 10, 2014 2:36 am

ABS on my ute is a good thing, coz legislation sez I haf to uz lite truck tyres which are shite compared to good car tyres.

But I put radial m/c and 4 spot 4 pad calipers on Bella
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DungeonMaster
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PostSubject: Re: The time is near...   Mon Nov 10, 2014 6:11 am

ghezzi wrote:
Hey, you were never pretentious, just pontificating, right?

No, No I'm not!!!
wrong guy? uh oh.
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TalkingGriso
Grignapoco
Grignapoco


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PostSubject: Re: The time is near...   Mon Nov 10, 2014 7:07 am

While I have never owned a bike with such electromechanical rider aids, I welcome them all. With the caveat that they can be switched off by rider choice. I am fascinated by the latest developments in banked turning ABS specifically designed for bikes.
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Steak
L'Innominato
L'Innominato


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PostSubject: Re: The time is near...   Mon Nov 10, 2014 8:10 am

First off, what is a "European Parliament?"

I am completely nonplussed by the whole ABS thing, and I never understand the guys who say that they'd love to buy a GRiSO if only it had ABS... Really? That just seems silly to me, but at least it has kept a lot of namby pambys out of our GRiSO-dom, which is a plus.

Will ABS standardization kill the GRiSO? I certainly have no idea, but I think it would be a terrible shame. Personally, I would liken such a move to that of Ducati discontinuing the Monster. 10 years wouldn't be a bad run, but the bike is still relevant.

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2012 MOTO GUZZI GRiSO 1200SE

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Grisonut
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PostSubject: Re: The time is near...   Mon Nov 10, 2014 2:53 pm

As far as the GRiSO production, it'd be not even 10 years old it they stop making it in 2016.
How long was the original Le Mans produced? 15 years or so?
They might modify the look a bit but keep the frame and drive train virtually unchanged...
Anyway, I ain't getting rid of mine.
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grisorosso
Grignapoco
Grignapoco


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PostSubject: Re: The time is near...   Mon Nov 10, 2014 3:46 pm

Skill level dependent, ABS activates when control is lost or imminent.
Generally this situation is avoided by riding within your skill set.
Have owned two bikes with ABS. Neither ever activated.
The inclusion of ABS didn't change the way I ride or didn't intrude on my pleasure.

It would be unfortunate if the GRiSO were discontinued by an inability to meet legislation.
Litigious, nanny world we created has come to this.

Locked the front on the GRiSO just once, to experience the effective top level of the brakes and stability. I keep that in mind when riding.

Here in Oz there appears to be great deals on new bikes up to 3 years old.
Doesn't quite scream popular. Moto Guzzi is not for everyone, that works for me.
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DungeonMaster
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PostSubject: Re: The time is near...   Mon Nov 10, 2014 9:31 pm

I caught a very brief front slide in a down hill hair-pin turn yesterday. I'm glad I wasn't pushing my limits - I would have binned it.

DM
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GNORTS
Tanabuso
Tanabuso


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PostSubject: Re: The time is near...   Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:22 am

Pete Roper wrote:
Manufacture of G11's began in 2005 and ceased in 2007 with some still being sold in some markets as a 2008 model.

G12 was first built in 2007 but first 'Overseas' release was in 2008 and it continues to this day.

I fear that 2015 May well be the final year for the GRiSO, mainly due to the difficulty of fitting ABS. No matter, it hasn't been a bad trot. The sad thing is that they are beginning to grow in popularity! It seems a shame to have to put it to bed just as people are waking up to its promise.

Pete
At the last Guzzi breakfast in Portland, I asked the Piaggio regional rep, Josh Kane, if the GRiSO's days were numbered because of the lack of ABS. Josh said the bike is due for a "redesign," and he also mentioned that Aprilia now has an ABS system that's very small and could be incorporated into a "redesigned" GRiSO.

I brought it up to Josh because of a recent article in Cycle World that compared a number of "character" bikes to the GRiSO, and the article praised the GRiSO above all the others. Not bad for a bike that's been around for nine years.
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pokeyjoe
Don Abbondio
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PostSubject: Re: The time is near...   Thu Dec 18, 2014 4:48 pm

I have a Dorsoduro with that ABS system (may be the same one on Pete's Mana). There wasn't anyplace to put it on Aprilias either so they install them in front of the oil pan. Then they put a chin spoiler on it to hide it. I hope they don't do that on the GRiSO. It looks like they put the pump between the cylinders on the V7II. I'm not sure I like that either (let's warm up some brake fluid). I agree with redesigning the bike so the ABS pump doesn't look like a wart on the front of the engine.
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ghezzi
Fra Cristoforo
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PostSubject: Re: The time is near...   Thu Dec 18, 2014 5:39 pm

Whaddya mean redesign the bike. Just tack it on 'ere has been the Guzzi way, since 1921.
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Steak
L'Innominato
L'Innominato


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PostSubject: Re: The time is near...   Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:28 am

ABS can suck my balls.  in fact, that's how I will now designate that acronym, a ball suck.

Man has survived the last 100 motorcycling years without a ball suck.  I am perfectly happy with my GRiSOs sans a ball suck.

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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: The time is near...   Fri Dec 19, 2014 2:59 am

Steak, I credit thee...
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PostSubject: Re: The time is near...   Today at 4:47 am

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