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Osprey70
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PostSubject: Buying check list   Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:28 pm

Hi all,
I am still lurking the forum, but more importantly am still looking for a GRiSO. I believe I may have found a candidate for purchase: 2014 model, 900km all for $10000 including 2 year guarantee.
This is where you guys come in; is there a checklist of things to verify in second hand Grisos - what can go wrong and how can I tell?
I am sure the GRiSO would be a great stable mate to my GS.
Any input welcome !
Thanks, Simon
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Guzzi Cat
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PostSubject: Re: Buying check list   Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:10 pm

Can't see how you could go wrong with that deal!

Surely it couldn't be screwed up with just 900km, ask them to change the oil and filter and check that they are using the correct 10w60 fully synthetic oil, have them check the valve settings , balance TB's reset TPS and I think you've got a real deal! Thumbs Up
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opc
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PostSubject: Re: Buying check list   Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:24 pm

If it's stock:
Make sure the Sacred Screw has not been mucked with

If it's modded:
Be wary of power adders or fueling bolt-ons (like power commanders)
Aftermarket pipes should have dB killers installed or available
Ask if air filter was "upgraded". You want to stick with stock

Make sure it comes with two keys
Make sure you get the Security PIN from the prior owner
Ask if the swing arm bearings were serviced
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Buying check list   Thu Jun 11, 2015 2:58 pm

As long as it has two keys you're golden. You can use the 'Code Recovery' function to put your own code in.

All good points listed above.

A good indicator that it's been buggered with is when it is started. It should fire up with a stab of the button and then settle into a steady, if maybe a bit ragged, idle at about 1200rpm. If they have to goose the throttle to keep it going and/or it has a low or high idle when warm thank them politely and walk away smiling. Once you're out of sight run like buggery and don't look back!

Pete
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Osprey70
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PostSubject: Re: Buying check list   Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:09 pm

Thanks for the info, it is appreciated. But do excuse my ignorance; what is TPS, TB and the ominous Sacred Screw ? I am baffled ( you will have gathered by now that I am no mechanic!)
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opc
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PostSubject: Re: Buying check list   Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:48 pm

TPS - Throttle Position Sensor. It is reset electronically by connecting to the motorcycle ECU
TB - Throttle Body.  
Sacred Screw - Has a proper name, but I think of it as an Idle Linkage-Stop Screw.  Comes with an over-dab of yellow paint to mark the factory setting.  If the paint is disturbed, misaligned, or missing....well, headaches of migraine proportion ensue.  There's a pic of one floating around on this site [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.].


Last edited by opc on Fri Jun 12, 2015 7:47 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Added link to Ghetto thread with Sacred Screw pic)
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Buying check list   Thu Jun 11, 2015 6:01 pm

I'll see if I can drag up some pics of the various bits and bobs you need to look at but unfortunately all my pics are still on Flickr which is not iPad friendly so I have to do pics from my desktop which is in a freezing cold oubliette on the eastern side of my house and in winter it's perishingly cold as it's the furthest place in the house from the fire!

I suppose I could wear my Gerbings jacket and gloves in there but that might be a bit weird.....

Pete
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Osprey70
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PostSubject: Re: Buying check list   Thu Jun 11, 2015 10:13 pm

Thanks Pete, that would be really useful. Also makes me think, that when all the info is here we could create a reference post on things to look out for in purchasing Grisos. This would be super helpful for all them Grisoless newbies.
Simon
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Grisodude
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PostSubject: Re: Buying check list   Thu Jun 18, 2015 12:45 am

"I suppose I could wear my Gerbings jacket and gloves in there but that might be a bit weird....."
Why Peter.
I'll wear anything to keep warm, don't care what I look like.
Although Leanne sometimes gives me a strange look.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Buying check list   Thu Jun 18, 2015 5:16 am

On the original subject I am currently working on a *Post* or whatever you would like to call it that I hope will cover most of the important points to check when purchasing a modern Guzzi.

Although it will be '8V GRiSO Centric' it will also cover most other CARC/W5AM models and I'll try to fling a bit of Bellagio relevant stuff in too. I hope it will be both useful to prospective purchasers as a positive guide but also a tick list to expose machine's being spruiked by idiots and charlatans.

Most of the 'Problems' associated with modern Guzzis are the product of poor servicing and lack of care about product knowledge. I can't help that. What I can try and do is ensure that if people are going in they go in with their eyes open. My motivation is entirely selfish! I want parts to be available for my bikes for many years to come!

Pete
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ScottMellor
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PostSubject: Re: Buying check list   Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:05 pm

I'm also in the market and I'm wondering if
"Be wary of power adders or fueling bolt-ons (like power commanders)"
refers to what Guzzitech sells?
Thanks,
Scott
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opc
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PostSubject: Re: Buying check list   Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:11 pm

ScottMellor wrote:
I'm also in the market and I'm wondering if
"Be wary of power adders or fueling bolt-ons (like power commanders)"
refers to what Guzzitech sells?
Thanks,
Scott
Yes, but not exclusively so. There are other sources for said knick-knacks.
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ScottMellor
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PostSubject: Re: Buying check list   Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:01 pm

So are the GT or other sources of power commander/ re flash NOT recommended?
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Buying check list   Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:40 pm

Look, I'm not willing to get into an argument over the merits or otherwise of Guzzitech products. My experience is that I spent at least two grand on products from that source and also supplied the vendor with some very expensive cams from Europe, gratis. Nothing I purchased fitted or worked. The cams I provided were never used. Also since the advent of Gizzidiag we have been able to download maps and examine them in Tunerpro. Let it just be said that what we saw didn't impress us much.

The use of Power Commanders if fine for fine tuning but they have to be an adjunct to a good map, not an alternative. They are also to my mind invasive and un-necessary. As for O2 'Optimisers' or 'Fat-Ducs' or other sensor foolers? They can promote gross and damaging over fuelling. One customer cost himself near to ten grand by using them.

Simple fact is a lot of people who spruik these products don't understand the products they sell. The W5AM controller or, especially in the case of the 8V motor, how engines work.

Pete
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Buying check list   Fri Jul 10, 2015 2:58 am

And? ('Crickets')

Any further questions?

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ScottMellor
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PostSubject: Re: Buying check list   Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:47 am

Thank you Pete and OPC. I appreciate your candor and I surely do not mean to cause any dissension.
I'm new to Guzzi. My last Eyetalian bikes were Laverdas, so I'm of a certain age:).
I drove a GRiSO and it was love at first gear and now I'm doing my due diligence.
I will probably be getting one within a few months and then I intend to make it smooth and sweet with y'all's help.
Best,
Scott
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tocino
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PostSubject: Re: Buying check list   Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:29 am

ScottMellor wrote:
it was love at first gear

Smile
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michael73
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PostSubject: Re: Buying check list   Thu Aug 20, 2015 8:51 am

Not withstanding all the mechanical bits and pieces, which are visible from the outside and checkable, the query regarding aftermarket add-ons that affect the innards is a wee bit mysterious. Newer (better) ecu maps and aftermarket pipes sound good and have some value added to the purchase price, but it is hard to determine whether the bike is running better than previous unless you have bike history, or have taken it for a ride cause it's your mates. Adverts in distant cities preclude the test drive somewhat which makes these add ons more suspect by virtue of distance. How simple is it to remap a bike, and return same to stock condition? You get what you get with one of these 'tuned' bikes, and there is no 'stock' switch setting to turn it all off when it fails. In my simple mind, you are installing a new map, and the old version is erased, not stored. How easy to fix, or check if the bike is in good shape? I mean, ride the beast, yes, but if you've not been on a stocker, how do you know?
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LBC Tenni
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PostSubject: Re: Buying check list   Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:24 am

The great thing about GuzziDiag (aside from being free) is that it's incredibly simple (even for a novice like me) to save your old map, load a new one, or reinstall the stock map. Following the tutorials on this fine forum, it takes all of about 15 minutes.  In less than an hour you can reload the stock map, take it for a spin, then load a better map, and get an almost immediate comparison. My bike still has the stock can and Beetle's map makes it run so much better than the stock map. If you are using GuzziDiag and Mark's maps, you really can't go wrong.  If there was a way for it to go wrong, I'd have found it.  It's a gift I have.  Pillage!
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Oz1200Guzzi
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PostSubject: Re: Buying check list   Thu Aug 20, 2015 2:37 pm

+1 on what LBC says. Really, once you Beetle-map your bike, you will start to appreciate the cool aid that is often dispensed from those that don't really know. Beetle knows, he must as he has PROPER keeping him in line. nuff said.
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bioman
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PostSubject: Re: Buying check list   Thu Aug 20, 2015 2:51 pm

michael73 wrote:
Newer (better) ecu maps and aftermarket pipes sound good and have some value added to the purchase price, but it is hard to determine whether the bike is running better than previous unless you have bike history, or have taken it for a ride cause it's your mate's.


As far as I understand (but the Guzzi Gurus can [and will  Very Happy ] correct me) all aftermarket pipes have purely cosmetic/sound effects - i.e. they may look and sound better but they do not make the bike run better.  However, in order to make the bike run at least as good as with the original pipe it may require an updated map.

You are right that, as a GRiSO novice going for a test drive, you may not know how a GRiSO should run if perfectly tuned and with the right map, so how can you know that the bike you are looking at buying is a good deal.  You also cannot easily verify what map the bike is running.
I would suggest that if the bike doesn't seem to run well you don't buy it, as you don't know if it requires "just a new map" or something much more substantial.  What you certainly could do is asking on this forum if there is anybody living in the bike's location who is willing to come with you to try out the bike or to take a look if the bike is located in a distant city. You could also first ask to take a Ghetto-member's bike for a spin to get a feeling for how a well-tuned bike behaves.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Buying check list   Thu Aug 20, 2015 8:32 pm

Oz1200Guzzi wrote:
has PROPER keeping him in line


Maybe I should be keeping Roper in line. After all, all this hooning and popping mono's led to his big end demise. Twisted Evil



Bioman wrote:
 far as I understand (but the Guzzi Gurus can [and will  Very Happy ] correct me) all aftermarket pipes have purely cosmetic/sound effects - i.e. they may look and sound better but they do not make the bike run better.


Not so, Padawan. Certain pipes like the Mistral Hi-Pipe can increase the low and mid torque substantially when mapped properly.
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bioman
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PostSubject: Re: Buying check list   Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:09 pm

beetle wrote:

Bioman wrote:
As far as I understand (but the Guzzi Gurus can [and will] correct me) all aftermarket pipes have purely cosmetic/sound effects - i.e. they may look and sound better but they do not make the bike run better.


Not so, Padawan. Certain pipes like the Mistral Hi-Pipe can increase the low and mid torque substantially when mapped properly.

I KNEW it!!!  I should have known better than to venture into unknown Guzzi-technical territories!!  I stand corrected!
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Oz1200Guzzi
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PostSubject: Re: Buying check list   Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:20 pm

Bioman - we are all here to learn from each other. Period. Do venture forward and ask the obvious/silly question - you will be answered by those that know (and possibly by those who think they know - but I think they might have moved on) and certainly, a robust discussion will be had and you can take from it and also contribute as much or as little as you want.

Around here we are all for the betterment of Moto Guzzi, and GRiSO in particular. Please enjoy and post often!
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DungeonMaster
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PostSubject: Re: Buying check list   Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:53 am

Osprey70 wrote:
Hi all,
I am still lurking the forum, but more importantly am still looking for a GRiSO. I believe I may have found a candidate for purchase: 2014 model, 900km all for $10000 including 2 year guarantee.
This is where you guys come in; is there a checklist of things to verify in second hand Grisos - what can go wrong and how can I tell?
I am sure the GRiSO would be a great stable mate to my GS.
Any input welcome !
Thanks, Simon

I didn't see one little point when I scanned the thread.

The first time I got my GRiSO serviced I had the shop pull the drive shaft and verify if the shaft splines were lubricated.

They were NOT. There was no damage. So I had them lube the drive shaft. Smile

DM
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