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Pete Roper
GRiSO Capo
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Pete Roper

Posts : 6450
Join date : 2013-05-29
Age : 62

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PostSubject: Re: Canister-ectomy   Canister-ectomy - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:35 pm

In theory not but since when you disconnect the canister you interfere with the breathing slightly it would seem sensible to me to re-balance the throttle bodies. If you do that then yes, a tps re-set is vital.
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JohnA
Grignapoco
Grignapoco
JohnA

Posts : 174
Join date : 2015-01-13
Age : 62

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PostSubject: Re: Canister-ectomy   Canister-ectomy - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:45 am

Gents,
Last Friday Cognosticator and I did the swing arm service. Since the rear was completely apart we decided to do the canister-ectomy too. What we ended up with is the throttle bodies connected to each other with a vent hose and the rest of that mess is gone. There is still the vent hose coming from the tank through the (blue) tip-over valve down to the bottom of the bike (no pinching that I see).That was previously connected to the canister.
My issue is this; the bike has always moaned some after a hot ride - since new. But after the canister removal it's really increased in frequency of the occurrence and loudness. As soon as I open the gas tank, it stops. If I close the tank, it goes back to making noises for quite some time. Yesterday it even made a couple of sounds when I went into the garage and I hadn't ridden in in 24 hours. It was about 93 degrees in the garage. Any ideas on how to cure this? I can deal with some of this like before but it feels like it needs to be addressed. Many thanks!

John
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Mbeach
Montanarolo
Montanarolo
Mbeach

Posts : 16
Join date : 2018-05-19

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PostSubject: Re: Canister-ectomy   Canister-ectomy - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:36 pm

Get rid of the tip over valve.
Pete clued me in to this as part of the canisterectomy. Pre-canister removal, the noise was so loud that I thought the fuel pump was running.
A 1/4" (I think, maybe 3/16") brass male-male hose barb will take its place and clean up the bike's look.
I regularly top off and park it hot in my garage, and have never had a drip of fuel come out of that hose.
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JohnA
Grignapoco
Grignapoco
JohnA

Posts : 174
Join date : 2015-01-13
Age : 62

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PostSubject: Re: Canister-ectomy   Canister-ectomy - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:22 am

Mbeach,
Many thanks for your reply. So logical question is; what happens if we drop or tip over the bike without this prevention valve? I've never done either so it's a hypothetical I suppose.
Thanks again.
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beetle
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beetle

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Join date : 2013-09-30

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PostSubject: Re: Canister-ectomy   Canister-ectomy - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:56 pm


The engine keeps running. As I am Sir Crash-a-lot, I wouldn't remove it.




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Mbeach
Montanarolo
Montanarolo
Mbeach

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PostSubject: Re: Canister-ectomy   Canister-ectomy - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:43 pm

Just to be clear, I’m talking about the blue/orange valve that sits above the rear brake fluid reservoir, not the fall sensor.
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beetle
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beetle

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PostSubject: Re: Canister-ectomy   Canister-ectomy - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:56 pm


The what now?


scratch



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beetle
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beetle

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PostSubject: Re: Canister-ectomy   Canister-ectomy - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Wed Jun 26, 2019 6:00 pm


Do you mean the tank breather non-return valve?


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Pete Roper
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Pete Roper

Posts : 6450
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PostSubject: Re: Canister-ectomy   Canister-ectomy - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Wed Jun 26, 2019 6:26 pm

Yup, that's the one. Mana's use the same valve and the early ones were faulty, they wouldn't allow the tank to vent which on the Mana was a real problem as the tank is under the seat. As the tank swelled it would rub on the rear wheel and eventually, if unaddressed, the tyre would rub through the tank! Shocked . With predictable results!

Pete
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kiwi dave
Tiradritto
Tiradritto
kiwi dave

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PostSubject: Re: Canister-ectomy   Canister-ectomy - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Wed Jun 26, 2019 6:51 pm

I usually pull them apart and remove the internal valve and reassemble.

The breather hose remains, just not the sticking valve in the circuit.
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ratso88
Grignapoco
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ratso88

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Join date : 2017-05-28
Age : 58

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PostSubject: Re: Canister-ectomy   Canister-ectomy - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Wed Jun 26, 2019 7:40 pm

Not wanting to toss another wrench in the works . . . but . . . is there any possibility this could be ignition related? I've personal experience with carbureted bikes, chasing my tail on a fueling issue only to find it was an ignition issue. Usual suspects: spark plugs, plug wires, ground(s), wiring, and of course component replacement.

Start with the simple easy to get to stuff.

Hope you chase this gremlin down.
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JohnA
Grignapoco
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JohnA

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PostSubject: Re: Canister-ectomy   Canister-ectomy - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:22 am

"Do you mean the tank breather non-return valve?"

"Just to be clear, I’m talking about the blue/orange valve that sits above the rear brake fluid reservoir, not the fall sensor."
________________________________________________________________________________
Mbeach, Beetle and Pete, Thank you.
We are talking about the blue and orange valve. I think the reason the noise got considerably louder (duh) was that in taking out the canister, I essentially removed the muffler that the hose was going into. Pete's comment about faulty valves causing the tank to swell on a Mana was interesting. My tank swelled after the first year and I replaced in with another tank that I lined with Caswell Expoxy first. Probably not related but you never know. I'm going to install a 1/4" (ID) -5/16" (OD) hose barb as suggested by Mbeah via Pete. That should be the end of the story.
In the last 3 months, the bike has been Beetlized (map), Roperized (swing arm service) and had a canister-ectomy. So, things are looking up. Thanks again to all and the Cognosticator who made all of this possible.

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Leone
Carlotto
Carlotto
Leone

Posts : 33
Join date : 2019-02-17
Age : 42

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PostSubject: Re: Canister-ectomy   Canister-ectomy - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:40 am

There's a rollover valve integrated into the fuel cap assembly (take it off and blow through the ports while flipping the cap assembly upside down, you'll see how it works). You can safely remove the blue/orange part, which is a low cracking pressure bi-directional valve, the source of the buzzing noise some find offensive when the thing is venting. In theory, leaving it in place after removing the rest of the EVAP system would prevent our ethanol-laden fuel from being continuously exposed to atmosphere, absorbing moisture which is not so great for the nylon tanks. However, it's also a potential failure point (not so great if the thing sticks!) and you'll still get the burst of fuel blowing out around the cap any time it's opened, from the small amount of pressure still stored in the tank.

My own experience with the system was that it allowed a considerable amount of pressure to be stored in the tank, which was already showing cracks in the paint from day one. Hot starts were terrible due to the engine choking on fuel vapors for the first minute or so, and fuel pressure changes would do funny things to the idle speed. However, some people don't seem to have these problems.
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JohnA
Grignapoco
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JohnA

Posts : 174
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PostSubject: Re: Canister-ectomy   Canister-ectomy - Page 2 Icon_minitime1Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:43 am

Thank you Leone. I moved from Houston to Savannah, GA about 2.5 years ago and most always use non-ethanol gas now. It wasn't attainable in Houston. Savannah is by the GA coast so most boaters don't want ethanol. So if some atmosphere wants to sneak back up to my tank, it won't find ethanol in it and I also lined my tank with epoxy before I left Houston.
I appreciate the explanation for the valve.
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