12425 - Established June, 2013 - all GRiSO, all the time...
 
HomeFAQRegisterLog in
Share | 
 

 Flat Tappet Recall

Go down 
AuthorMessage
LBC Tenni
Nibbio
Nibbio
avatar

Posts : 694
Join date : 2014-06-05

PostSubject: Flat Tappet Recall   Thu Dec 10, 2015 6:21 pm

If you own a bike with flat tappets and would like to see Piaggio forced to do the right thing and recall them, here is a link to the complaint I filed with NHTSA. In the blue box, select keyword and enter GRiSO in the search field. This will bring up my complaint. Please feel free to cut and paste from my complaint and file your own complaint. If enough of us do this, NHTSA will open an investigation and Piaggio will have to answer. Please spread the word to other forums to get Stelvio and Norge owners involved as well. Strength in numbers. Piaggio will ignore their customers, but they can't ignore the feds.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Back to top Go down
beetle
GRiSO
GRiSO
avatar

Posts : 5723
Join date : 2013-09-30

PostSubject: Re: Flat Tappet Recall   Thu Dec 10, 2015 8:51 pm

I hope you can get the numbers. Why hasn't anyone else tried this? Or have they, and had no support?
Back to top Go down
https://www.griso.org
LBC Tenni
Nibbio
Nibbio
avatar

Posts : 694
Join date : 2014-06-05

PostSubject: Re: Flat Tappet Recall   Thu Dec 10, 2015 9:01 pm

I searched the NHTSA site thoroughly and found no other complaints on the issue. It may be a shot in the dark, but worth a try.
Back to top Go down
H-E-ROSS
Biondino
Biondino
avatar

Posts : 239
Join date : 2015-09-09
Age : 59

PostSubject: Re: Flat Tappet Recall   Thu Dec 10, 2015 9:44 pm

Seems like a good shot, but it looks like safety is the primary concern with the recall process.
I think,"sudden engine seizure could cause injury or death" is the tack to take.
Back to top Go down
http://h-e-ross.com
John Lyon
Tanabuso
Tanabuso
avatar

Posts : 50
Join date : 2014-02-01

PostSubject: Re: Flat Tappet Recall   Fri Dec 11, 2015 5:58 am

Great idea. I'm in and will forward to a Stelvio owner I know.
Back to top Go down
LBC Tenni
Nibbio
Nibbio
avatar

Posts : 694
Join date : 2014-06-05

PostSubject: Re: Flat Tappet Recall   Fri Dec 11, 2015 8:02 pm

Good point Ross. Important to include the safety implications in the complaints.
Back to top Go down
Pete Roper
GRiSO
GRiSO
avatar

Posts : 5612
Join date : 2013-05-29
Age : 61

PostSubject: Re: Flat Tappet Recall   Sat Dec 12, 2015 2:53 am

The thing is that sudden seizure would be very, very unlikely.

In the event of a 'Worst case scenario' where someone rode the bike until the foot of the tappet was completely worn away the worst I could see happening is the pushrod dropping and getting caught between the cam and cambox. Them result would be catastrophic for the motor but unlikely to cause the crank to stop rotating. Even if the cam somehow jammed the cam there is so much mass, and therefore inertia and stored energy in the crank, never mind the whole bike, that the most likely result would be that the camchain would snap and you might end up with bent valves and a smashed barrel or crankcase casting. It is still virtually impossible to seize the motor due to a top end failure.

There is also the fact that by the time you got anywhere close to that the performance loss, (Not to mention the noise!) would of been impossible not to notice! Some people seem to have this weird attitude of "I know there is something seriously wrong with this but there shouldn't be so I'm going to punish the machine by keeping using it!" It's even worse if the machine is in warranty! Barmy!

Pete
Back to top Go down
John Lyon
Tanabuso
Tanabuso
avatar

Posts : 50
Join date : 2014-02-01

PostSubject: Re: Flat Tappet Recall   Sat Dec 12, 2015 7:53 am

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

It seems many consumer protections are based on the issue of safety, as opposed to a reasonable useful life.  My guess is that where the complete maintenance history is not provided, Piaggio can argue misuse of product by the consumer (stinky, but probably legally supportable).  Where it is available, they provide the parts.  Not sure how they argue they're not also responsible for labor, however.

On the maintenance history requirement, I suppose that would include the instruction in the manual to change oil, etc. every 12 months, regardless of mileage?
Back to top Go down
LBC Tenni
Nibbio
Nibbio
avatar

Posts : 694
Join date : 2014-06-05

PostSubject: Re: Flat Tappet Recall   Sat Dec 12, 2015 9:50 am

NHTSA has done recalls on cars I have owned over the years, that didn't seem to have safety implications at all. If enough owners make enough noise about a problem that can cause premature engine failure, no matter how slow, they will take a look. If they find the manufacturer knowingly put defective parts in thousands of engines, they will issue a recall.
What is 100% certain is nothing will happen if we just sit around complaining amongst ourselves.
It'll take you 5 minutes. There is nothing to lose. File a complaint. Let the naysayers nay.
Back to top Go down
Pete Roper
GRiSO
GRiSO
avatar

Posts : 5612
Join date : 2013-05-29
Age : 61

PostSubject: Re: Flat Tappet Recall   Sat Dec 12, 2015 10:10 am

And there, in a nutshell, you have it. It is clearly stated in the service and warranty book that certain operations need to be carried out either at specific distance intervals or time intervals. Whether this is right or reasonable is neither here nor there, (Although I can think of several reasonable arguments to support the 'Time' aspect that would probably stand up in court.) the simple fact is the manufacturer has stated that this is the case! To get around that you'd have to present an argument that the manufacturer knew less than the owner about their product! Good luck with that!

Also, for those demanding that they get not only parts but installation for nothing here's a little something for you to consider. By doing that you are effectively asking for the shop to work for nothing. At least in Oz but in most markets the way it works with any warranty is you are given nothing for any diagnosis time spent. Any repair work is credited at the manufacturers book rate in hours which is often absurdly optimistic and is *Paid* at their hourly rate which is less than two thirds of my true hourly rate. And as the final little pat on the head you don't even get paid money! It is given back to you, grudgingly, as a credit against your parts account. You never actually see a cent!

"OK" you may say, "but that's not my problem." No, it's not, but I can tell you that I simply can't afford to work for nothing and if I was put in the invidious position where I was suddenly asked to dedicate 40+% of my time to working for nothing I'd just pull down the shutters and go work stacking supermarket shelves on night-fill because at least I'd be making enough money to eat and I'd have bugger-all responsibilities.

Pete
Back to top Go down
John Lyon
Tanabuso
Tanabuso
avatar

Posts : 50
Join date : 2014-02-01

PostSubject: Re: Flat Tappet Recall   Sat Dec 12, 2015 10:27 am

Pete,  had no idea that burden is placed on the dealers. I assumed the manufacture paid/reimbursed for the cost of warranty work.

Personally, I'm out of luck due to the time requirement. I was simply waiting for my 6,000 miles to roll around, and completely overlooked the 12 month requirement. Also, I need a C kit, which is more work - not sure I have time/skill to take than on, so probably looking at $1,500 - $2,000 for a preemptive fix, with labor. I wonder if it's deductible as a casualty loss?
Back to top Go down
Pete Roper
GRiSO
GRiSO
avatar

Posts : 5612
Join date : 2013-05-29
Age : 61

PostSubject: Re: Flat Tappet Recall   Sat Dec 12, 2015 10:54 am

Yeah. People are often surprised when I tell them that. Rolling Eyes It's one of the main reasons I no longer do Aprilias. They had a batch of Cappo 1200's with bad output shafts. To fix it was an engine from frame and complete last nut and bolt strip of the motor because when they build a Cappo, (Incidentally the world's most boring motorbikes!) they start with an output shaft and build a motorbike onto it!

For that Piaggio in their benificence would credit me 13.6 hours @ $65PH. And what happened if it leaked? Do it again for nothing! Oh, and I'd be paying for oil, coolant, consumables etc! I told them to go stick their heads up a dead bear's bum!

As it is I have currently got four 8V rollerisation claims either waiting on approval or waiting for parts and another two that the parts are here for. With GRiSO's the work is pretty simple and I can now, (After having done a dozen or so!) *almost* meet book time as long as nothing goes wrong. Norges and Stelvios? That's a different matter.

Before Christmas I an expecting to be slapping in a claim on 'Converted Duc's bike, a local 1200 Sport 8V and at least one other GRiSO. Given that at the moment about 40% of my time is taken up rollerising bikes if I wasn't charging my hourly rate I simply couldn't afford to do it! And I have very, very low overheads!

I will do everything within my power to assist people to get the best possible outcome and will always try to get the parts for free but at the end of the day the decision isn't ultimately up to me and if there is one thing that will really get my back up its people telling ME what I HAVE to do for them! I really don't like shouters and 'Pokers in the Chest', (Yes, I've had a few! Had one about a month ago actually!) will get very short shrift!

Pete
Back to top Go down
Pete Roper
GRiSO
GRiSO
avatar

Posts : 5612
Join date : 2013-05-29
Age : 61

PostSubject: Re: Flat Tappet Recall   Sat Dec 12, 2015 11:10 am

John Lyon wrote:


Personally, I'm out of luck due to the time requirement.  I was simply waiting for my 6,000 miles to roll around, and completely overlooked the 12 month requirement.  Also, I need a C kit, which is more work - not sure I have time/skill to take than on, so probably looking at $1,500 - $2,000 for a preemptive fix, with labor.  I wonder if it's deductible as a casualty loss?

Never say never. Have you got receipts for the parts required for service? If so this may well be sufficient in the USA. I'm not sure of the entire details. It may well be worth you getting your dealer to pull a cambox for inspection and get them to whack in a claim. You never know and what have you lost?

Pete
Back to top Go down
John Lyon
Tanabuso
Tanabuso
avatar

Posts : 50
Join date : 2014-02-01

PostSubject: Re: Flat Tappet Recall   Sat Dec 12, 2015 11:10 pm

Pete Roper wrote:
John Lyon wrote:


Personally, I'm out of luck due to the time requirement.  I was simply waiting for my 6,000 miles to roll around, and completely overlooked the 12 month requirement.  Also, I need a C kit, which is more work - not sure I have time/skill to take than on, so probably looking at $1,500 - $2,000 for a preemptive fix, with labor.  I wonder if it's deductible as a casualty loss?

Never say never. Have you got receipts for the parts required for service? If so this may well be sufficient in the USA. I'm not sure of the entire details. It may well be worth you getting your dealer to pull a cambox for inspection and get them to whack in a claim. You never know and what have you lost?

Pete

Pete,  yes I have my stamped book for all scheduled maintenance at the mileage intervals, but not for every 12 months in between.  (Yes, I do need to ride more...).  But as you say, I'll have them inspect and give it a go if damage is seen.  If there is no damage, then I roll the dice to see if I should wait another 6,000 miles or 12 months.
Back to top Go down
Cereal KLR
Tanabuso
Tanabuso
avatar

Posts : 51
Join date : 2015-10-12

PostSubject: Re: Flat Tappet Recall   Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:08 pm

Dam, Pete just pulled my covers down. I was getting all frothy over the new Capo Rally then come to find out its boring and maintenance nightmare. Back to Stelvio hunting.
Back to top Go down
 
Flat Tappet Recall
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
GRiSO ghetto :: The Ghetto :: GRiSO Experience-
Jump to: