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 Replacing fork seals - with Matris cartridges

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beetle
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PostSubject: Replacing fork seals - with Matris cartridges   Fri Apr 15, 2016 4:40 pm

Need to change fork seals. Back in the day I used to do it myself on my Suzukis. Why, this should be easy on my GRiSO's forks. Bloody Matris cartridges don't have holes to use the spring compressor. We tried compressing on the shoulder of the top of the spring spacer, but it won't compress enough to fit the lock onto.

A 17mm spanner fits on the lock nut, and you can unscrew it most of the way without compressing the spring, however, you can't get it all the way.

Furthermore, stupid compressor slipped of during a compression attempt and I have dinged and scratched everything up. Fuck!

Not sure how to proceed.

Open to suggestions.

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Pete said to take 'em to his guy. Sure, but the forks have challenged me. I don't like it.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Replacing fork seals - with Matris cartridges   Fri Apr 15, 2016 6:48 pm

Never mind. Figured it out.




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Belfastguzzi
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PostSubject: Re: Replacing fork seals - with Matris cartridges   Sat Apr 16, 2016 4:03 am

I'd appreciate a brief 'how to' description as I need to replace fork seals. I don't have any special tools for disassembly or seal fitting. When original seals were leaking I had new seals fitted by a 'good bike mechanic' at same time that I was having him replace brake discs. One seal leaked again straight away. Maybe it was damaged on fitting or maybe the fit of whatever brand of seal he used isn't quite right. He didn't reply to any of my queries about this.

I have Guzzi seals to put on. Not sure whether to tackle it or take it to another mechanic. I did the V11 fork seals ok but am expecting the GRiSO job to be a bit more tricky.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Replacing fork seals - with Matris cartridges   Sat Apr 16, 2016 6:45 am

I'm stuck again. I can't compress the spring to reattach the cap. The Matris kit shows pics of holes to use a 'regular' Spring compressor. Nope, don't exist. I tried a couple of dodgy methods, but alas, all I got was a loud 'sproing' of the spacer shooting across the garage.

Getting the new seal on was the easy part. Putting it back together? Not so much.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Replacing fork seals - with Matris cartridges   Sat Apr 16, 2016 8:46 pm

Winner!

All done. First seal took 1 week. Second, 1/2 hour. cheers



OK, how to do a bodgy fork seal replacement.


1. Set preload to minimum.


2. Remove front Tupperware, calipers and wheel.


3.Next, loosen the cap. Do not remove, just crack it open.


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3. Remove forks from triple clamps


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4. Unscrew too cap, and slide fork tube down to reveal goodies within.


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5. Drain oil and the assume the position.



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6. Compress spring and use appropriate sized spanner on lock-nut to remove cap. In my case with the Matris cartridge, it's a 17mm. Note backyard butcher home made spring compressor.


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7. Once spring is removed, hold the fork vertically and pump the damper several times, draining the oil after a few pumps. Repeat. Eventually, the trickle becomes a drip, and that'll do.


8. Push dust cap down towards the bottom of the stanchion. Remove the circlip with a small screwdriver. Then, using the fork tube as a slide hammer, knock out the seal, washer and bush. Take note of the order they are in. Remove seal, washer and both bushings.


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9. Tape the end of the stanchion where the top bushing groove is and add a little bit of rubber grease. This will prevent any damage to the new seal. Slide new seal on, then washer and both bushings.



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10. Remove tape and slide the fork tube on. Attach fork seal driver and press bushing in. Repeat for seal, then reinstall circlip.



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11.  Stand fork assembly upright and add new oil. While adding the oil, pump the damper rod up and down several times until you feel the rod fill with oil. Bubbles will bubble. Do it until it bubbles no more.  I used 5W to a level of 135mm from the top. YMMV.


12. Reinstall spring and spacer over damper rod and recompress fork spring, then reattach cap. Make sure you don't lose any oil. Nip lock-nut up. Screw fork tube to cap. The cap has very fine threads, so take care.


13. Repeat for other fork leg. Done!






.


Last edited by beetle on Sat Apr 16, 2016 11:04 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Replacing fork seals - with Matris cartridges   Sat Apr 16, 2016 10:15 pm

Well done old cock cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Replacing fork seals - with Matris cartridges   Sat Apr 16, 2016 10:50 pm

Good perseverance Beetle Thumbs Up

Belfastguzzi wrote:
One seal leaked again straight away. Maybe it was damaged on fitting or maybe the fit of whatever brand of seal he used isn't quite right.

I have Guzzi seals to put on. Not sure whether to tackle it or take it to another mechanic. I did the V11 fork seals ok but am expecting the GRiSO job to be a bit more tricky.

If you wrap a strip of light plastic (greased on both sides)such as a strip cut from a milk carton around the fork stanchion and then push new seal over the plastic and slide both plastic and seal down the stanchion until correct seal position, then pull out plastic strip, this will stop the new seal from getting damaged on sharp or pitted surface of stanchion.
To get the seal over the plastic at the start, just overlap the plastic strip in a cone shape and then push seal over cone and push the seal and plastic over end of stanchion.
This is how I done it on a mates TDM, I hope you can understand my crude description Viva la Fiesta
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PostSubject: Re: Replacing fork seals - with Matris cartridges   Sat Apr 16, 2016 11:02 pm

Thanks for reminding me GC. I used duct tape. I just added the pic.
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PostSubject: Re: Replacing fork seals - with Matris cartridges   Sun Apr 17, 2016 2:38 am

Excellent, thanks! Would a fork slider to seat the seal, made up from split plastic tube work? Does it take a lot of pressure/weight to get the seal in? If I buy a slider is there anything to look out for or are these standard items as long as I get the correct diameter?
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PostSubject: Re: Replacing fork seals - with Matris cartridges   Sun Apr 17, 2016 2:57 am

It does take a bit of force to get the bushing reseated and the seal to go in. That's why the seal drivers are weighted. If you decide to make your own, be aware that the business end of the driver needs to contact the outer edge of the seal only.
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PostSubject: Re: Replacing fork seals - with Matris cartridges   Fri May 20, 2016 4:05 pm

Beetle, What breed of seals did you go with, and sizes or kit # Shocked Question
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PostSubject: Re: Replacing fork seals - with Matris cartridges   Fri May 20, 2016 4:34 pm

Size is 43 x 54 x 11

I ordered the All-Balls 55-120 kit, but the numpty at the PO didn't tell me they had arrived. After a week of cursing the retailer, I bought some Link seals from the local Honda shop.




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PostSubject: Re: Replacing fork seals - with Matris cartridges   Fri May 20, 2016 4:50 pm

Thank you kind sir cheers
Just ordered SKF Kit # 43S , they apparently have less stiction than oem seals , Each kit has 1x seal 43x 54x 9 mm, 1x wiper and 1x optional spacer, my guess is the spacer will be required.
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PostSubject: Re: Replacing fork seals - with Matris cartridges   Sat May 21, 2016 1:47 am

Overheard a legendary local mechanic this week, extolling the virtues of the SKF seals, many options of cheaper fork seals, but they come with a greater propensity for early failure.
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PostSubject: Re: Replacing fork seals - with Matris cartridges   Sat May 21, 2016 2:18 am

ghezzi wrote:
Overheard a legendary local mechanic this week, extolling the virtues of the SKF seals, many options of cheaper fork seals, but they come with a greater propensity for early failure.
In plain English Einstein, SKF good or bad ?  Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Replacing fork seals - with Matris cartridges   Sat May 21, 2016 3:26 am

SKF Very Good. bounce
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PostSubject: Re: Replacing fork seals - with Matris cartridges   Sat May 21, 2016 2:45 pm

ghezzi wrote:
SKF Very Good. bounce

In my youth, I worked for GE Apparatus Service division - it no longer exists - and I bought multitudes of SKF products for all types of rotating machinery. They are the largest bearing manufacturer in the world. Founded in Gothenburg, Sweden in 1907.

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PostSubject: Re: Replacing fork seals - with Matris cartridges   Sat May 21, 2016 2:55 pm

Good luck, Ron. Bet they don't last any longer than mine.
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PostSubject: Re: Replacing fork seals - with Matris cartridges   Thu May 31, 2018 6:27 pm

Thanks for posting this, seal on my 2010 8V 1200 has been leaking (actually thought the oil was coming from my 850T parked next to it, but no).

So the wheel is off and ready to pull the forks (doing both), read somewhere on here that the aluminum fork cap is a 36mm, ordered one, but mine's not, really wanted to knock this out this weekend, supposed to go to Elkhart Lake next weekend.

1) What's the tried and true socket for the fork cap so you don't mar it up, what mm?
2) Forks are stock, does that mean I have Matris cartridges
 2.1) do I need a special 17mm(?) Matris cartridge tool
3) What fork seal slide do you recommend, from what I gather my forks are 43mm

Appreciate it!
-J
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PostSubject: Re: Replacing fork seals - with Matris cartridges   Thu May 31, 2018 8:13 pm

I'm pretty sure 36mm is the right size.

You do not have Matris cartridges in stock forks. Therefore, you don't need any special Matris tools.

Use a slide that is sized to work. IIRC, I got mine off eBay.







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PostSubject: Re: Replacing fork seals - with Matris cartridges   Thu May 31, 2018 10:49 pm


Re leaking seals try this dirt bike trick:
- Get some quality film such as old 8mm camera film or the clear plastic film used to cover office presentations.
-Cut a strip about 6 inches long and 1 inch wide
-On the end piece you will insert under the fork seal, round the top off so it does not tear the fork seal.
-Drop the fork wiper (also clean it)
-Insert/slide in the plastic at least an inch past the seal
-In an up and down motion whilst circumnavigating the fork leg rotate the plastic several times.
-Remove and bounce the forks a couple of times (with the hand brake on).
-Repeat this process 2 to 3 times-invariably the seal is good to go and the bit of dirt/insect et al has been displaced and the fluid stays behind the seal
-Replace the wiper and go ride
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PostSubject: Re: Replacing fork seals - with Matris cartridges   Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:27 am

Thanks for all the help, even though I was in the wrong thread - having the standard forks w/o Matris carts - thought I'd wrap it up in case anyone else wanders in with the same situation.

- I have 32mm fork caps
- I used aluminum tape over the bushings to safely slide the dust caps and seals on.
- Stockton adjustable fork seal slide (39mm-50mm) for the 43mm Showa tubes.
- Went with the All Balls 56-133-1 kit, as I already had them in hand.
- Bel-Ray 7W Fork Oil - 520 ml in each fork.

Spent an hour on the first fork, second one about 20min. To get the allen out of the bottom of the fork I put a T handle, vertically, in a vise and popped it using the caliper bracket on the lower as leverage. To avoid accidentally marring up the tubes and lowers I used a small 1.5" plastic putty knife to pries the snap ring out. Very easy straight forward job, no leaks after 600 mi, $85 for tools and consumables.
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PostSubject: Re: Replacing fork seals - with Matris cartridges   Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:47 pm

Jaycain have you tried my fork seal cleaning approach-well worth a shot.
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PostSubject: Re: Replacing fork seals - with Matris cartridges   Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:13 am

GHTE -

The seal and wiper kit for both forks was only $28, recommended that they be changed out after 10k mi, I'm at 9700 mi. Your fix sounds like a good idea in a pinch, but easier in my case to just remove and replace since I needed to anyway.
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PostSubject: Re: Replacing fork seals - with Matris cartridges   Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:40 am

FWIW I keep some of these on hand. Doesn't always work, obviously won't fix a wrecked seal.
According to their vids and literature, most leaks are just debris. In the past I've been able to
delay seal replacement til after riding season.

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