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 27000km Breather pipes fail

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blue thunder
Grignapoco
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PostSubject: 27000km Breather pipes fail   Tue Apr 26, 2016 11:12 am

Fould some oil nearby the right cindinder.
My 2015 seems to have a heritable problem. The breather pipes are broken. Had the same problem on the 1200 sport before. Also after a year.
Anyone else had this issue? I wonder which supplier has been messing with bad quality rubber.

Fixed it temporarily and called in my dealer. New pipes are on the way already. Lucky for me my dealer is one of the good fellas!

Here's the problem:
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The fix Cool :

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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: 27000km Breather pipes fail   Tue Apr 26, 2016 11:29 am

Yes, it's very common, especially on early models. Guzzi in their infinite wisdom buy hoses from a company that makes them out of a form of plastic that isn't resistant to oil and dislikes heat. It has always been thus and is enraging but with pre formed pipes we're just about stuck with it.

Pete
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blue thunder
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PostSubject: Re: 27000km Breather pipes fail   Tue Apr 26, 2016 11:46 am

Is there any known alternative for it or do I better buy some good quality tube and make them myself? What is wisdom?
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: 27000km Breather pipes fail   Tue Apr 26, 2016 1:59 pm

The problem is the bends. They are pre-formed, if you use ordinary hose it will kink on the tight bends.

Pete
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keenerkeen07
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PostSubject: Re: 27000km Breather pipes fail   Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:37 pm

Guzzi.......sometimes you have to wonder scratch
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Ralf z
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PostSubject: Re: 27000km Breather pipes fail   Tue Apr 26, 2016 11:31 pm

Just happened to mine the other day, I got away with trimming the end and new hose clamp.

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blue thunder
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PostSubject: Re: 27000km Breather pipes fail   Wed Apr 27, 2016 12:56 am

I trimmed the end too but that's just a temporary solution. I'm looking for something more definitive.The pipes are pretty expensive just to replace them every year.
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blue thunder
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PostSubject: Re: 27000km Breather pipes fail   Thu Apr 28, 2016 12:22 pm

Tubes already arrived at the dealer's place! Hooray.
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FrogGuzzi
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PostSubject: Re: 27000km Breather pipes fail   Wed May 18, 2016 2:15 am

Hi Guys,
I have the same problem on my '08 8v, and I'm starting to get annoyed with oil spots on my left boot after a ride.
Pete : you were saying they were preformed, but do you know to what the other end is attached to ?
If it's a breather tube, logic would say "atmosphere", but maybe you know off the bat.
I can see that the tube comes off the cylinder and has a 90° bend and heads up towards the handlebars.
My local garage states it goes to the air box, under reference AP8144038, can you confirm ?

The idea being, getting some straight black 'oil and heat resistant" nitrile or silicone tube, and getting a plastic "U" bend off eBay or somewhere, and just replacing the bugger, with something stronger that won't leak, suggestions appreciated...
S.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: 27000km Breather pipes fail   Wed May 18, 2016 4:13 am

The breathers go to the condensor box just behind the steering head. The condensate is returned to the sump and the vented gas goes to the airbox.

Pete
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FrogGuzzi
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PostSubject: Re: 27000km Breather pipes fail   Wed May 18, 2016 4:41 am

Hi Pete,
thanks for the help, precise and concise as always Smile
Steve.
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Papa Lazarou
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PostSubject: Re: 27000km Breather pipes fail   Wed May 18, 2016 2:11 pm

I managed to get some braided pipes for a Spada a few years back. I'll see if the maker is still in business. Never had any problems with them rotting.

Found them. No pipes for the 1200 yet, tho

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FrogGuzzi
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PostSubject: Re: 27000km Breather pipes fail   Thu May 19, 2016 4:29 am

Hi Guys,
having trolled through the parts PDF, I have finally found the part number for these pipes, just for reference if it helps anyone :
GU978765

I am certainly going to replace them with a piece of standard silicone hose.

Steve.
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FrogGuzzi
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PostSubject: Re: 27000km Breather pipes fail   Tue May 31, 2016 9:29 am

Hi Guys,
after having dismantled the breather pipe on the LH cylinder, all looks clear, the pipe doesn't seem to be damaged, aged or have cracks (looks like it was changed when it had the rollers done to it a couple of years back).
I had a look at the condenser box, wondering if I could pull it out to clean it, having removed the tank, but this looks to be a real pig to remove as the box is tucked away between the engine and the handlebar column.
Anyway, I cleaned the greasy tubes, and cleaned bits and bobs and reassembled as best I could.
Happy with the task, I took it out for a spin... guess what ?
The buggar still leaks, as I getting oil spots on my left boot and trousers, which is mildly annoying.

The oil leak does seem to come from this part of the engine, I'm stumped...
Any ideas ?
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waterbottle
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PostSubject: Re: 27000km Breather pipes fail   Tue May 31, 2016 1:44 pm

Hi Frog, Did you remove the hose from the spigot on the little cam cover ? What clamp did you refit. Use a small amount of a Silicon gasket maker like Loctite Grey Maxx 5699 on the spigot then push the hose on and clamp. Parts must be CLEAN. Sometimes doing a small hose clamp up real tight will "Pinch " the hose near the worm drive and allow a path for the oil to leak.
At the air box end, I've used this Grey Maxx on all the hoses and used Ty-raps ( Zip Ties ) going around the hose twice before inserting the tail and zipping up. This gives twice the clamping pressure and there is no pinch point to create a leak. Good Luck cheers
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: 27000km Breather pipes fail   Tue May 31, 2016 2:03 pm

When you checked the breather box did you make sure the horrid little rubber condom on the spigot used for the Bellagio breather wasn't perished or torn?

Pete
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FreshEgg
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PostSubject: Re: 27000km Breather pipes fail   Tue May 31, 2016 10:43 pm

Pete Roper wrote:
When you checked the breather box did you make sure the horrid little rubber condom on the spigot used for the Bellagio breather wasn't perished or torn?

Pete

Second what Roper-san say. The condom on my was cut by its own clamp.
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blue thunder
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PostSubject: Re: 27000km Breather pipes fail   Mon Apr 24, 2017 5:37 am

Bugger!
After 48.000 kms the breather pipe is entirely f**ked up. Cracks all over the tube and now it's leaking at the breather box too.
I will be happy having them renewed next week.

Is there any disadvantage when I would reroute the breather pipe directly to the sump and airbox? The oil is spilled to the airbox anyway. Something says me that it would make not much difference unless to keep the "Green Boys" quite.
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FreshEgg
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PostSubject: Re: 27000km Breather pipes fail   Mon Apr 24, 2017 9:14 am

I think the little blob of a breather box in front of the headstock serves to separate oil and air from the mist that comes out of the crankcase. Note that big juggs pump big pulses of crankcase vapor.

The existing setup doesn't work that well in separating oil from air as is and dumps a lot of oil into the airbox. My guess is that bypassing the little breather blob will make this worse. Also see previous posts about lowering the oil fill level to help with this issue.
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PostSubject: Re: 27000km Breather pipes fail   Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:00 am

blue thunder wrote:
Bugger!
After 48.000 kms the breather pipe is entirely f**ked up. Cracks all over the tube and now it's leaking at the breather box too.
I will be happy having them renewed next week.

Is there any disadvantage when I would reroute the breather pipe directly to the sump and airbox? The oil is spilled to the airbox anyway. Something says me that it would make not much difference unless to keep the "Green Boys" quite.

Yes, you need to have the condensor box otherwise you'll just end up pumping large amounts of vapor into the airbox and you'll clog your stepper and throttle bodies.

As Freshegg says the system works quite well as long as it isn't over-taxed and the best way to ensure it isn't is to lower the oil level. Most people quite logically think that keeping the oil at the 'Full' mark on the stick is the best thing to do. The most oil has to be good, right? Unfortunately it doesn't work like that and by keeping the oil level high you increase the amount of oil whipped up and kept in suspension by the spinning crank which in turn leads to greater expulsion through the breather system and harder work for the condensor box which ends up being overwhelmed resulting in lots of oil in the airbox, clogged TB's etc.

When refilling after an oil change don't fill beyond half way between the 'Add' and 'Full' marks and don't add any unless it drops below the 'Add' mark. There's plenty in there to do its job, really.

As horn the hoses? Yes, they're crap, although in my experience the new ones seem a bit better than the old ones. So far I haven't found a workable alternative to the original hoses as they are 'Pre-formed' to give the required curves. Most other things I've tried have tended to kink in the heat and you really don't want the engine not being able to breathe as the first failure point will be the rear main seal!

Pete
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PostSubject: Re: 27000km Breather pipes fail   Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:48 am

How about this mob. Could a hose be fashioned out of elbows etc to make a tube as needed. Even comes in different colours.

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blue thunder
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PostSubject: Re: 27000km Breather pipes fail   Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:47 am

Thanks Pete.
I'll get my hoses renewed and hopefully they last another 40000km. It's not the system that bothers me, it's the poor quality of the components that worries me. And the fact Guzzi doesn't seem to have a decent solution for this.
Will keep the oil level to the minimum too and see what 's the result.
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