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 Mr. Bluster in the ghetto, uncovers a GRiSO scam

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Mr. Bluster
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PostSubject: Mr. Bluster in the ghetto, uncovers a GRiSO scam   Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:22 pm

I'm getting this one, a 2012, that was purchased in US and taken to Europe, so now it's making its third trip across the briny blue. Mine is the same Tenni green, which I love, but black seat. Wondering if I can get the brown leather. Do you know? Really goes with the green. I'm in Wisconsin, too. Madison. The GRiSO is in addition to my Harley-D Sportster, which I got last August.

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Steak
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PostSubject: Mr. Bluster in the ghetto   Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:37 pm

Mr. Bluster wrote:
I'm getting this one, a 2012, that was purchased in US and taken to Europe, so now it's making its third trip across the briny blue. Mine is the same Tenni green, which I love, but black seat. Wondering if I can get the brown leather. Do you know? Really goes with the green. I'm in Wisconsin, too. Madison. The GRiSO is in addition to my Harley-D Sportster, which I got last August.

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No cream stripes, no brown saddle, are you sure it's a 2011 Tenni?  2012 was the advent of the Diavolo Nero/Black Devil.  That's actually a 2009-2010 1200 8V saddle.  If it is original to the bike, then it is a pre-1200SE GRiSO that's been painted "Tenni" green, but without the cream racing stripe decals.  Also, on the 2011 1200SE both the GRiSO logo and 8V were in cream, not gold and red as they appear in your photo.


Still a looker though.

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2012 MOTO GUZZI GRiSO 1200SE

2013 MOTO GUZZI STELVIO 1200NTX - Orange Blossom Special
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PostSubject: Re: Mr. Bluster in the ghetto, uncovers a GRiSO scam   Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:32 pm

Have Pete run the VIN# and he should be able to sort it out...
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PostSubject: Re: Mr. Bluster in the ghetto, uncovers a GRiSO scam   Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:42 pm

Yeah, flick me the VIN and I should be able to tell you.
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PostSubject: Re: Mr. Bluster in the ghetto, uncovers a GRiSO scam   Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:43 pm

Mr. Bluster
All I can say is NICE cheers 

Harry
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Mr. Bluster
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PostSubject: Re: Mr. Bluster in the ghetto, uncovers a GRiSO scam   Tue Mar 11, 2014 7:54 am

Have e-mailed the seller in Europe for the VIN. Until he responds, my correspondence with him is that it is a 2012 Moto Guzzi GRiSO 1200 Rizoma, Mistral. Does that make any sense?
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Steak
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PostSubject: Re: Mr. Bluster in the ghetto, uncovers a GRiSO scam   Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:02 am

There were no Tenni GRiSOs in 2012.  Rizoma is the brand of aftermarket mirrors, grips, maybe the turn signals and possibly other doo-dads that seem to be on the bike, Mistral is the brand of aftermarket slip on muffler/exhaust that I assume is on the bike.

As I said, the seat that is in the picture is from a pre-1200SE 8V GRiSO, which he may have swapped in because it has a slightly narrower profile than those on 1100 GRiSOs, or the 1200SE GRiSOs.

At any rate, I suspect that whatever the year of manufacture, it has been repainted in "Tenni green" unless he peeled off all the decals, which seems strange.  Likewise, if it actually is a 2012, he would have had to remove all of the Diavolo Nero decals before repainting, which also seems strange.

On the plus side, if it actually is a 2012 (specifically a 3Q-4Q 2012) then it might already have the current roller tappet motor which some might say is a good thing.

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2012 MOTO GUZZI GRiSO 1200SE

2013 MOTO GUZZI STELVIO 1200NTX - Orange Blossom Special
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Mr. Bluster
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PostSubject: Re: Mr. Bluster in the ghetto, uncovers a GRiSO scam   Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:18 am

Well, I think I sent Mr. Roper the VIN but the private message is in the Outbox not the Sentbox. I'm really wondering about this, especially since ads have been up for it since last July all over the internet.

The VIN: zgulsu026cm111470

Listed as a "GRiSO 2012 Moto Guzzi GRiSO 1200 Rizoma, Mistral"

Now I am getting suspicious. Here are ads for it: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

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PostSubject: Re: Mr. Bluster in the ghetto, uncovers a GRiSO scam   Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:30 am

Sorry, getting a 'Not Available' message from the portal on that ViN. Either I can only check AU bikes or the VIN is wrong.

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Steak
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PostSubject: Re: Mr. Bluster in the ghetto, uncovers a GRiSO scam   Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:51 am

Am I reading those ads correctly?  $7000 in Newark or $13,000 in St. Louis, yet you mentioned it is being shipped back to the US from Europe???

Comparing the VIN listed to that on Todd's Guzzitech Registry it falls within the 1200SE Tenni range. So that means the VIN is correct for a Tenni. It also means it was not manufactured in 2012. It is possible that it was originally sold in 2012, so maybe the seller is a bit confused as to how to classify it.

I'm still at a loss regarding the lack of original striping and the incorrect decals on the rear cowling...

I seem to recall a similar GRiSO posted by a member on either Wild Guzzi or Guzzitech. I'll try to reference the posts if I can find them.

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2012 MOTO GUZZI GRiSO 1200SE

2013 MOTO GUZZI STELVIO 1200NTX - Orange Blossom Special


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Mr. Bluster
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PostSubject: Re: Mr. Bluster in the ghetto, uncovers a GRiSO scam   Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:53 am

Yeah ... The e-mail from the seller reads like this:

Quote :
Hello,

As you probably noticed, the price is rather low for this bike.I can ship the bike to you and you will pay C.O.D (CASH ON DELIVERY). The reason why I am selling the bike at this price is because I'm from Sweden .I was in USA and bought the bike from USA and I took the bike with me in Sweden. I work on a cruise ship, I'm naval officer, I work 6 months on board and 3 months I stay home, at this moment I'm home.

The bike is here in my garage in Sweden,you can drive/ride a unregistered vehicle only 3 months in Sweden then you have to register the vehicle to get Swedish documents. In Sweden it is very complicated and expensive to register a vehicle. I have all the documents but the bike has US documents and as i said, the law is very complicated here to register a vehicle that is imported from outside Europe.

Now, I can't come to USA to sell the bike because I'll spend much money and lose more time, my only chance to sell this bike is to find a buyer in the U.S. or in another country.

I can send the bike to your home, shipping will take approximately 10 working days and i`ll cover the charges, after you receive the bike you have another two days to inspect it. When the inspection period end, the shipping company will contact you and if there are any issues with the bike you can refuse it. If all is good, and I'm sure it will be, they will help you with the transfer of ownership. If you are interested to buy write me back with your shipping information and your phone number(cell or home).
You won't find another bike in such condition at this price.

Please reply, Thanks
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Landman
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PostSubject: Re: Mr. Bluster in the ghetto, uncovers a GRiSO scam   Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:01 pm

I found a GRiSO overseas and was given the exact same story, except he was in Italy. It sounded strange so I called his bluff and said I had a friend in Italy who could come and inspect the bike. I never heard back from him.
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Steak
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PostSubject: Re: Mr. Bluster in the ghetto, uncovers a GRiSO scam   Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:05 pm

Sounds like a scam to me. But what do I know about Swedish Naval officers who work on cruise ships...

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2012 MOTO GUZZI GRiSO 1200SE

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PostSubject: Re: Mr. Bluster in the ghetto, uncovers a GRiSO scam   Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:21 pm

Sorry I can't help with the VIN.

There are a couple of things that concern me though.

Firstly as others have pointed out the green colour scheme was not an option in 2012, while not really a problem if it has been repainted one has to ask why it it being presented as a 2012 SE when so many things don't tie up? Sure the black frame, wire wheels, 'Conventional' discs etc. say its an SE but the seat and lack of decals say otherwise. Now that may all be completely legitimate. The owner may of changed stuff to his preference. If that is the case though why hasn't the dealer mentioned it in the advert? Could it be because they know bugger-all about Guzzis?

Secondly the owner claims to be a naval officer? Why then is the bike being sold in bloody St. Louis? Surely if it is having to be shipped back from Europe it would make sense to sell it on the eastern seaboard? Not ship it to the middle of the bloody country!

All of this 'I'll take COD, just commit and I'll ship the bike to you.' Shit smells very scammy to me. Once you commit he may start asking for a deposit or a contribution to the shipping costs or whatever. It just makes me uneasy. The simple fact is that for me there are too many unanswered questions and even the current location of the bike seems a bit ambivalent! Is it in Europe? Is it in St. Louis? Is it somewhere else? Is it what it is claimed to be?

There are plenty of Grisos out there, ones that you can see and touch and actually check up on before you commit to buy. Hell, you can get a brand new roller tappet Diavolo Nero for $11,500 with full warranty etc. Why risk something that might be dodgy when there's a deal like that available?

At the end of the day if something looks like its too good to be true? Well, its probably because it is!

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Steak
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PostSubject: Re: Mr. Bluster in the ghetto, uncovers a GRiSO scam   Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:25 pm

To add to the story...

This eBay listing says the bike was sold out of St. Louis in August of last year, still with only 700 miles... Here is the Mild Guzzi thread on that one.


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Mr. Bluster
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PostSubject: Re: Mr. Bluster in the ghetto, uncovers a GRiSO scam   Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:51 pm

He gives his name as Borje Salming. Should have done this right away. Wikipedia says he is a retired Canadian hockey player. Borje Salming. [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Heh, heh. Well, he doesn't have any of my financial data ... but does have my home address and cell phone ##. That's o.k., too. I'm protected by Smith & Wesson.

Thanks for all your help.
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Steak
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PostSubject: Re: Mr. Bluster in the ghetto, uncovers a GRiSO scam   Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:53 pm

At this point I am absolutely certain that you are dealing with a scammer.  The bike you seem to be looking at was purchased last August by Mild Guzzi member Tiger-One in Louisiana (I'm unsure if he is a member here) Here is his announcement thread on WG.

Subsequent postings by Tiger_One show the lack of stripes and also a seat swap to the pre-SE 8V saddle.

Here is his post with that very same VIN number...

With the black saddle...

With the stripes removed...

With the pre-SE decals on the rear cowling...

I knew that I had seen that GRiSO before.  Unfortunately for you, that GRiSO you are looking to buy has way more than 700 miles on it now and it resides in Louisiana.

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2012 MOTO GUZZI GRiSO 1200SE

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Steak
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PostSubject: Re: Mr. Bluster in the ghetto, uncovers a GRiSO scam   Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:08 pm

Mr. Bluster,

How did you come by that advert/seller? It would probably be good to put the word out here and on the other usual places (WG and GT) warning folks of the scam.

- SD

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2012 MOTO GUZZI GRiSO 1200SE

2013 MOTO GUZZI STELVIO 1200NTX - Orange Blossom Special
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Mr. Bluster
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PostSubject: Re: Mr. Bluster in the ghetto, uncovers a GRiSO scam   Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:28 pm

Yeah, help me along with that. I've joined a few forums. Found it here:

Now I am getting suspicious. Here are ads for it: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

and [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

This is the scammer's e-mail address: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

I'm not going to let him know that I am on to him. See how this plays out. I've actually joined a couple other Moto G websites, I'll post there, too. Thanks for your help.
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PostSubject: Re: Mr. Bluster in the ghetto, uncovers a GRiSO scam   Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:17 am

Mr. Bluster
All I can say is NICE  cheers 
Has turned into that SUCKS

Harry
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PostSubject: Re: Mr. Bluster in the ghetto, uncovers a GRiSO scam   Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:33 am

Glad you didn't get scammed.
The guy must be from Nigeria...
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Mr. Bluster
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PostSubject: Re: Mr. Bluster in the ghetto, uncovers a GRiSO scam   Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:19 am

Further developments. I really am at sea on this. If this is a scam it is much more elaborate than anything coming out of Nigeria. Seems to be a legitimate shipping company. And truthfully (no offense) if one were to construct a scam, wouldn't you use a more popular motorcycle as bait? Say, a Harley Davidson or Honda Gold Wing? Web site and e-mail address and phone #. All of which seems legit. But sure enough, the shipping company wants $2,000 up front, which it deducts from the $7,000 total price. There is the scam, right? But it seems like a legit shipping company. Here's their web site listed on the shipping invoice: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] But try Googling "Exclusive Britannia Limited" and the closest match you get is a biscuit company based in India. Sure enough, I get a phone call while I'm doing this from a man with an Indian accent wondering if I had received the e-mail documents. However, his phone # had the 44 country code of the U.K. And Mr. Salming's address (Smålandsgatan 17, SE-401 71 Stockholm, Sweden) shows up on Apple Maps as an apartment or condo building.

This is today's e-mail:

Quote :
David,
I sent the bike in this morning.
I sent it with all papers in order for you can be able to make the title transfer.
The name of the shipping company I used to send the bike is Exclusive Britannia Ltd. It's a big and a good company.
In two weeks the bike should be in United States.
I made the bill of sale that includes all the pertinent information about my vehicle and its sale price.
For the title transfer, I complete the requested information on the certificate of title.
I have completed the gray sections of the application certificate of title.
You will take it to your local DMV office.
You will need to transfer the title into your name at the DMV within 10 days.
After you transfer your name in the title send me an e-mail and confirm that.
You must handle the title transfer and registration paperwork yourself with the contract of sale and all documents I sent you. You'll need to fill out an application for title and registration and take it in person to your local DMV office.
You might also be required to pay a use tax 29 usd + DMV fees.
PS : See attachments, I'm very happy that we have completed the transaction, please remember to contact me after you receive the bike.
I sent you a copy of the contract of sale.

Thank you

Borje Salming

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Mr. Bluster
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PostSubject: Re: Mr. Bluster in the ghetto, uncovers a GRiSO scam   Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:35 am

Just spoke to the sales manager at Moto Europa in St. Louis, Missouri. He says he sold it last summer to a guy in Louisiana, as Steak has found, who then sold it a month ago to someone in Chicago, Illinois. "That bike is not in Sweden," he said.

Bottom line: SCAM!

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Steak
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PostSubject: Re: Mr. Bluster in the ghetto, uncovers a GRiSO scam   Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:57 am

Scammers can be very clever bastards.

A WHOIS IP search returns the following information.  The company's elaborate website was created on 06 March 2014 (six days ago!) via a webhosting company in Germany.  This is why you can't find any reference to this company on Google, Bing, DuckDuckGo, or any other search engines.  It hasn't been around long enough to be catalogued by any of the search engines out there.

Further, the other company mentioned on the invoice, European Movers Ltd had a website registered with the same German hosting company and was flagged as a fraudulent site just last month.  Starting to get the picture???

To be perfectly honest, I'm even regretting investigating the link you provided for the company, who knows what kind of malicious code could be embedded there...

So you know that Tiger_One over on Wild Guzzi bought the bike in August of 2013 with 700 miles on the bike.  He then sold it in December of 2013 with 4500 miles on the bike.  He also says he didn't think the new owner was selling at this time.  If unconvinced, you could always ask him if he'd contact the guy he sold the bike to and find out if he still has it.

Swedish Naval officers on cruise ships, British Shipping company, German Webhost, Indian shipping agents...  It's a small, small world...  

If you wire them $2K, I don't think you'll see either the GRiSO or your money ever again.

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Mr. Bluster
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PostSubject: Re: Mr. Bluster in the ghetto, uncovers a GRiSO scam   Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:35 pm

Good work, Steak! You are well done!
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