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anguscameron1966
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PostSubject: Re: Hello from Scotland   Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:05 pm

Hi all,

Thanks for the welcome and valued advise.

The GRiSO is currently having the front fork seals replaced. Then it's off to the local dealer to have the tappet inspection. Hopefully the parts will be covered under the warranty since the bike has it's service history. If not I will order the parts and have it done regardless.

I've read a bit about the bikes being remapped. Should this be done after rollerisation? My bike has the factory exhaust.

Cheers,

Angus.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Hello from Scotland   Tue Jan 31, 2017 4:44 pm

After the bike has been rollerised the factory says load up the GRS8V-03 map. this is fairly shite but a lot better than what your bike probably has now. I'd suggest you buy some cables, download Guzzidiag and buy a Beetlemap but the choice is yours. Whichever way you go the tune must be correct and sadly there are still a lot of shops out there who don't know how to tune a W5AM Guzzi, even Guzzi dealers.

Pete
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Il Griso
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PostSubject: Re: Hello from Scotland   Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:34 am

Hi Angus,

Short comment from my side regarding the GRiSO tappets:
Your GRiSO (the bike shown on the photo)  is equipped with an A8-engine.

To identify which kind of tappets is installed, you have two options:
Eighter to remove the valve case and have a look into
Or to have a look to the engine number on your COC.

All engines starting with engine number A8 013524 or higher (assembly date April 4th, 2012 or later) have roller tappets instead of flat tappets before, which have much lower friction (due to the rolls).

Thus, all engines with a higher number as shown above are OK and don't show problems with the tappets.

Good luck, Ralf
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Hello from Scotland   Sat Feb 04, 2017 1:00 pm

Ralf, the factory stated numbers aren't always accurate. I've seen flat tappets in engines with later numbers than stated as the cut off.

Also I don't believe friction is the issue that causes DLC failure but its immaterial really.

Pete
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anguscameron1966
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PostSubject: Re: Hello from Scotland   Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:25 am

Hi again and thanks guys,

The GRiSO has had the front shock seals replaced and is due to go into the dealer to have the tappets checked out soon. The bike seems to have a problem with the speedo sensor so that will be replaced when in to have the tappet inspection. Once or if already rollerised then I'm into loading a Beetlemap and looking forward to the spring and summer to fully enjoy.

Once again thanks for the welcome and the invaluable advice.

Cheers,

Angus.
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anguscameron1966
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PostSubject: Re: Hello from Scotland   Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:12 am

The story so far .... the GRiSO was at the dealer yesterday and they confirmed it has flat tappets. They couldn't remove the heads to see the underside of the tappets to check them as they had no stock of the head gaskets.

The technician checked the valve clearances and confirmed they were to Moto Guzzi specification. He advised that since the valve clearances are correct that he can't see there being any damage to the tappets or DLC at this time.  If there was damage he would have expected that the clearances would have been out of specification.  

Regardless I have asked that they order the head gaskets so that the full inspection can be made and photographs taken.  If there is any deterioration I believe the kit will be supplied FOC so I think it worth checking it out and trying for the FOC kit.

I also noticed that the underside of the head covers was partially coated with an oil that was an emulsion.  He advised that this was not uncommon on Motto Guzzi and I should not be concerned.  Any thoughts on this?

Speedo sensor and cable replaced. Now working fine.

Speedo cable replaced.  New HT leads to be fitted when tappets are checked as I was getting an occasional misfire also.

Overall he commented that the GRiSO was in great condition, has been well serviced and looked after.

He also confirmed the service history on the GRiSO is complete.

Cheers,

Angus.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Hello from Scotland   Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:32 am

Oh for fucks sakes! You don't need head gaskets to inspect the fucking tappets! It's a 15 minute job on the LH side.

Speed sensor and cable are one part! Did they charge you twice???

The mayo on the valve covers is 'Normal' but with flat tappet bikes is an indicator the engine isn't getting hot enough and will contribute to early tappet failure.

Jesus!

I give up!

Pete
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Hello from Scotland   Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:34 am

Get a new dealer. Those dipshits should be avoided. Your GRiSO is in danger.

Rolling Eyes


This is how easy it is:

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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Hello from Scotland   Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:11 am

And that's with a fat, stupid, arthritic old fuck doing it! Imagine what it would be like if he was young, lithe and agile! Rolling Eyes
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anguscameron1966
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PostSubject: Re: Hello from Scotland   Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:14 am

Pete/Beetle,

I spoke to the technician this morning regards the cam box removal.

He advised me that he was aware that you can remove it without removing the head and replacing the gasket but that Guzzi recommend it is replaced (or at least whoever in Guzzi is advising him Suspect ) as you are removing the tension from the gasket when removing the 4 main bolts on the cam box.

He did say if it was his own bike he would do it without replacing the head gasket, however, he has to follow the direction of his employer.

Regardless I have sent him a link to your video and await their response.

No double charge for the speedo Smile

They are the only Moto Guzzi dealers in Scotland and to be fair I've read nothing but good reviews about them from other owners.

Cheers,

Angus.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Hello from Scotland   Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:34 am

The head gasket is a stratified metal composite. As long as it isn't actually removed it is fine to leave alone. If it wasn't they would have to supply a full set of head gaskets with both the 'A' and 'B' kits!

Also you need to loosen an extra two bolts before you remove the cambox or you risk warping the head.

Jesus the *Experts* at Guzzi GB or whatever they're called must be dumber than the new mob here. Anyway, since he knows better why isn't your mechanic calling them out? Oh yes, it's the UK, I grew up there 'Mustn't grumble' and don't dare 'Talk Back' to the boss, even when you're right, because you'll get sacked.

Why do people put up with that???

At least you're in Scotland which is almost civilized!

Pete
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paulbrice
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PostSubject: Re: Hello from Scotland   Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:35 am

Hi Angus, I was guessing from the first picture that the MG dealer supplied you the bike ? If so then they are on the hook under warranty/consumer goods act to sort it out completely (not just FOC parts & charge you the labour).

If they didn't supply it it may depend how they & MG handle it...Just as a datapoint my bike previous owner put it in for annual service at a dealer he didn't originally buy it from & asked for cambox check - they charged £135 charge to check the camboxes but then replaced it parts+labour FOC with MG paying it all (according to the old receipts).

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Il Griso
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PostSubject: Re: Hello from Scotland   Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:53 pm

Pete Roper wrote:
Oh for fucks sakes! You don't need head gaskets to inspect the fucking tappets! It's a 15 minute job on the LH side.

Speed sensor and cable are one part! Did they charge you twice???

The mayo on the valve covers is 'Normal' but with flat tappet bikes is an indicator the engine isn't getting hot enough and will contribute to early tappet failure.

Jesus!

I give up!

Pete

Pete,

I'm not involved in this problematic directly, cause my GRiSO has roller tappets in.
But as technician, I'm interested in the root cause.

You say the engine doesn't get hot enough and thus contributing to the failure.
Was there any information distributed from Guzzi about the root cause?

What is your opinion about the direct impact of cold engines temp?
Oil viscosity issue? Problems with lubrication oil film?

What I have seen on the pictures looks more to a too small eccentricity resulting in a poor tappet rotation or could be a problem with the material pairing or surface treatment.
Both are not impacted directly by oil temps.

I am interested in your explanation!
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Steak
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PostSubject: Re: Hello from Scotland   Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:30 pm

To save Pete some trouble, here are some posts to review:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

afro

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
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2012 MOTO GUZZI GRiSO 1200SE

2013 MOTO GUZZI STELVIO 1200NTX - Orange Blossom Special
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anguscameron1966
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PostSubject: Re: Hello from Scotland   Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:28 pm

paulbrice wrote:
Hi Angus, I was guessing from the first picture that the MG dealer supplied you the bike ? If so then they are on the hook under warranty/consumer goods act to sort it out completely (not just FOC parts & charge you the labour).

If they didn't supply it it may depend how they & MG handle it...Just as a datapoint my bike previous owner put it in for annual service at a dealer he didn't originally buy it from & asked for cambox check - they charged £135 charge to check the camboxes but then replaced it parts+labour FOC with MG paying it all (according to the old receipts).


Hi Paul,

No the bike was supplied by a dealer near Northampton. The MG dealer in Scotland has confirmed that the bike service history is intact and it was available on line to them.

As far as I'm aware if the problem can be seen then as I have a history MG will supply the parts in a kit FOC and I will likely have to pay the labour. Would be great if MG picked up the tab but i'll take what I can get Smile

Cheers,

Angus.
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anguscameron1966
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PostSubject: Re: Hello from Scotland   Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:37 pm

Pete Roper wrote:
The head gasket is a stratified metal composite. As long as it isn't actually removed it is fine to leave alone. If it wasn't they would have to supply a full set of head gaskets with both the 'A' and 'B' kits!

Also you need to loosen an extra two bolts before you remove the cambox or you risk warping the head.

Jesus the *Experts* at Guzzi GB or whatever they're called must be dumber than the new mob here. Anyway, since he knows better why isn't your mechanic calling them out? Oh yes, it's the UK, I grew up there 'Mustn't grumble' and don't dare 'Talk Back' to the boss, even when you're right, because you'll get sacked.

Why do people put up with that???

At least you're in Scotland which is almost civilized!

Pete

Hi Pete the technician called me back on the gasket issue. He pointed out that the gaskets were £40 per head, he also confirmed they were happy to do the work without removing the heads. I wonder that they may have had a chat with MG UK. I was able to point out that the gaskets are not part of the Kit and what they are made of thanks to you.

So once he calls to say the HT leads have arrived I will be off to get those fitted and a look at the flat tappets (photos to follow).

Thanks again!

Angus.

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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Hello from Scotland   Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:19 pm

What year is this thing again? An '08? If so the heads will have to come off to do the conversion. The point I was making is they DON'T have to come off to inspect the tappets. There is a major difference.

If the bike is pre-Mid 2010 then it will need a 'C' kit, (Or 'B' kit with extra parts.) and the heads will have to come off to install the shims under the inlet valve spring seats. Or, you can take the option of swapping out the four inlet valve springs for the later, 2015 on, springs. Either way the heads have to come off. But you don't need to lift the heads to inspect the cam boxes. See Video above.

Pete
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PostSubject: Re: Hello from Scotland   Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:43 pm

Angus, the 'C' kit includes head gaskets. No point buying a set before the inspection.



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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Hello from Scotland   Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:57 pm

Have a look here.

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I have a shitload of left over gaskets in most sizes. Make a $50 or equivalent donation to Medicienes sans frontiers and I'll send you a pair of any type apart from the middle size if you cough for postage.

Pete

PS. 'B' kits are cheap at the moment at both Teo Lamers and AF1 so best bet is go with one of them with an early bike and the extra bits. £532.00 at Teo's

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anguscameron1966
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PostSubject: Re: Hello from Scotland   Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:54 am

Thanks again guys, Just waiting on a date when they will do the inspection. Will let you know how it goes.

Cheers,

Angus.
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anguscameron1966
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PostSubject: Re: Hello from Scotland   Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:55 am

Update - That's the GRiSO flat tappet check complete.

As you had advised the DLC coating is on the road out. There is a doughnut shaped circle of wear on the tappets where the dlc coating has gone.

Photo's taken - report to be sent to MG to see if they will provide parts FOC (they should the bike has a full history). Regardless it will be rollerised and Beatle Mapped.

Thanks again for all the advise. It has proved to be spot on and i'm sure has saved my GRiSO from an early death.

Cheers,

Angus.
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PostSubject: Re: Hello from Scotland   Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:09 am

Good news that you are going to get it sorted, lets hope it has not done any further damage in the meantime. They are great bikes and worth the investment in time and energy to get them running correctly.
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anguscameron1966
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PostSubject: Re: Hello from Scotland   Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:15 pm

Good news today. MG have given the green light on the GRiSO rollerisation. Dealer has said they will email me with an update and when the parts are likely to be in.

Thanks again!!
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anguscameron1966
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PostSubject: Re: Hello from Scotland   Tue May 30, 2017 9:47 am

At long last my MG have sent out the C kit and my bike is going into be rollerised early June Smile

Do you think it fair to assume that MG will have instructed them to update the Map for the bike to the correct version?

Beetle how can I go about getting your map for the standard bike?

Thanks again,

Cheers,

Angus.

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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Hello from Scotland   Tue May 30, 2017 2:04 pm

IIRC, the technical instruction says to install the 2230G803 map.

If you want one of my maps, go here: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


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