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 The new guy with the sh** load of work to do

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thekenheld
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PostSubject: The new guy with the sh** load of work to do   The new guy with the sh** load of work to do Icon_minitime1Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:36 am

Hi all,
    my name's Ingo, and I'm just trying to find my way back to German everyday life. I spent the better part of the last two years in southeast Asia , where I stumbled upon a used GRiSO Black Devil from 2012. I wasn't looking for it and I didn't plan on buying one, but after I test rode it, I couldn't stand all the ER, Z and MT stuff that was also on display.
The VIN suggested that it was probably already rollerized and had the rear shock recall, and because I wanted to sell it before I went back I didn't care for much else.

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But then I couldn't let it go. Since it was banged and beaten, way too expensive and crashed even before I bought it, there was nothing more stupid I could do than to ship it back. So that's what I did. It's got about 50% of the parts that would make it street legal here, scratches and scars all over, PO fucked up the wiring and cut away half the airbox to install open mushrooms. I only got one key and no user code and on my last ride it started making horrible noises from the engine. It probably never saw a Guzzi dealer in its life and the only thing I can be sure of was one oil change when I bought it.
I don't know if it's going to be back on the road this year -or ever. Even if I get it all done it's unsure if I can register it here due to Euro4. So I'm searching the forum for any hints, 'cause it's also the first Guzzi I ever owned...

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G, I'm insane.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: The new guy with the sh** load of work to do   The new guy with the sh** load of work to do Icon_minitime1Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:48 am

Whip a rocker cover off and find if its been rollerised? If not, that's the first job.

What sort of queer noises?


Last edited by Pete Roper on Sat Feb 04, 2017 2:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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thekenheld
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PostSubject: Re: The new guy with the sh** load of work to do   The new guy with the sh** load of work to do Icon_minitime1Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:02 am

Yeah, the rocker cover is on the top of my list, but at the moment the bike is still on the vessel. The noise was rumbling and grinding, reminded me of a stone mill...
I'm really just digging through the forum these days to be a little prepared. The bike will arrive at the end of the month and then the plan is to adjust the valves, start it up and listen again.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: The new guy with the sh** load of work to do   The new guy with the sh** load of work to do Icon_minitime1Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:32 am

Look, it may well be your gearbox has shat itself but I find it highly unlikely because I have never, ever, had to have one apart. There was a bad batch of clutch plates in 2012 but AFAIK they all ended up in Stelvios.

Regardless of abuse you should remember that with the exception of the flat tappet fiasco the 8V is engineered like a Soviet tank! Almost everything is fixable with a bludgeon and cable ties! Very Happy

Pete
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peterc9
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PostSubject: Re: The new guy with the sh** load of work to do   The new guy with the sh** load of work to do Icon_minitime1Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:56 am

...as you can see, you've come to the right place, mate.
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sidrat
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PostSubject: Re: The new guy with the sh** load of work to do   The new guy with the sh** load of work to do Icon_minitime1Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:25 am

I can see this is going to make an interesting thread to read. I have done some spannering over Christmas on mine and it sure it built like a brick out house!

it is a bike that gets under your skin, you did the right thing rescuing it.
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NorthernProducer
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PostSubject: Re: The new guy with the sh** load of work to do   The new guy with the sh** load of work to do Icon_minitime1Sat Feb 04, 2017 2:24 am

Welcome, Ingo!
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: The new guy with the sh** load of work to do   The new guy with the sh** load of work to do Icon_minitime1Sat Feb 04, 2017 2:54 am

thekenheld wrote:
Yeah, the rocker cover is on the top of my list, but at the moment the bike is still on the vessel. The noise was rumbling and grinding, reminded me of a stone mill...
I'm really just digging through the forum these days to be a little prepared. The bike will arrive at the end of the month and then the plan is to adjust the valves, start it up and listen again.

If the rumbling/grinding noise is worse on the over-run my guess would be that the pinion nut has dumped its preload.

How many Km on this POS? If its a flat tappet bike it will need rollerising and the sooner the better.

Pete
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wardentm
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PostSubject: Re: The new guy with the sh** load of work to do   The new guy with the sh** load of work to do Icon_minitime1Sat Feb 04, 2017 5:38 am

Welcome Ingo from us all down in Tasmania.
Hope your used grumpy GRiSO gets some attention and gets back to good health so you can enjoy.
Life's good, take care
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Il Griso
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PostSubject: Re: The new guy with the sh** load of work to do   The new guy with the sh** load of work to do Icon_minitime1Sat Feb 04, 2017 2:18 pm

Servus Ingo,

welcome from a GRiSO driver in Austria!
Look to your COC and there to the engine number.

All A8 engines starting with 013524 are build with roller tappets instead of flat tappets.
Roller tappets don't have that friction as flat tappets. They all are OK.

Regarding import of your GRiSO to Germany the situation will be difficult.
Euro 4 is in place since Jan 1st, 2016. For existing models it is Jan. 1st, 2017.

If your GRiSO was already type approved in one of the 28 Member States of the European Union before, everything is OK.
However, I assume, that your bike has a type approval outside the EU.
Then you have to do a type approval in Europa at a type approval authority (in which member state you want - it is valid for whole EU).
But this will be a big pain for you and more less a mission impossible.
You have to fulfill a lot of requirement, laid down in the framework EU Regulation EC/168/2013 (you can download it from the EU website:
(http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/DE/TXT/?uri=celex%3A32013R0168).

You have to pass the following tests:

Tailpipe emissions at cold start
Emissions at idling
Emissions of crankcase gases
Durability of pollution control devices
CO2 to be reported to the TA authority
OBD I for Euro I (OBD II for Euro II)
Sound emissions

This are requirements from the framework regulation. Besides this there are 4 delegated acts from the Commission which you also have to be compliant to.

One of the describes brakes fro motorcycles. Starting with Euro 4 each bike has to be equipped with ABS (exemption only for trial and enduro).

Are you sure you will/can do this? That's why Guzzi has stopped the selling of bikes with the 1200 engine in Europe.

If you want to buy a new GRiSO in Europe, you have to speed up. There are only a few available any more.

Rgs,
Ralf




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Il Griso
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PostSubject: Re: The new guy with the sh** load of work to do   The new guy with the sh** load of work to do Icon_minitime1Sat Feb 04, 2017 2:22 pm

Ingo,
short correction to my listing for OBD:
The requirement for OBD I is Euro 4
and for OBD II is starting with Euro 5 (Jan. 1st, 2020)

Rgs, Ralf
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avgpetro
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PostSubject: Re: The new guy with the sh** load of work to do   The new guy with the sh** load of work to do Icon_minitime1Sat Feb 04, 2017 5:44 pm

Or, you may have no problem at all, your GRiSO probably has already its type aprooval. Just checked how it works, my 1100 vin is ZGULS, this vin has the EU approval e11*2002/24*0211*00. You probably can find those stuf, the easyest way would probaly be to ask someone having a GRiSO with the same viv type as yours in Germany, to tell you what is on his licence. Factory code and type code will help you fing the type approval, to have it ready for anyone interested. Been not 100% sure, looks to me the type "LS" Variant "E", has the EU approval E11*2002/24*0211*03
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Il Griso
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PostSubject: Re: The new guy with the sh** load of work to do   The new guy with the sh** load of work to do Icon_minitime1Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:15 pm

Hi Petros,

The GRiSO has a type approval for Europe (e11*2002/24*0211*06) but this does not help, as Directive EC/2002/24 is specifying only Euro 3.

Since 2016 we are on Euro 4.
The only thing which would help is a "first registration" in an EU Member State before Jan.1st,2016.

I assume, this is not the case. Otherwise, if the bike has already a registration, you can ride it forever (it is named "Bestandsschutz" which means "right of continuance").

Existing models (like the GRiSO) can be sold in the EU until Dec.31st, 2016.
That's the official funeral for the GRiSO in the European Union!

But there are some back doors enabling to buy a brand-new GRiSO even now.

1. Dealers have the option to declare models under the "end of series provision". But the number is restricted to max. 10% of the sold GRiSO over the past two years.

2. And this option is mostly practiced: the dealer makes a one day registration before Dec. 31st, 2016. Than the bike falls under the "right of continuance".
vehicles which are registered for one time are not effected by following emission standards. It is never retroactive.

I hope for you in down under, that the system there is more unstressed then ours in Europe.
Ralf
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Il Griso
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PostSubject: Re: The new guy with the sh** load of work to do   The new guy with the sh** load of work to do Icon_minitime1Sat Feb 04, 2017 8:38 pm

Petros,

sorry for mixing you to the Australians.
Greece is a lot south of Austria, but not enough for down under.
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thekenheld
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PostSubject: Re: The new guy with the sh** load of work to do   The new guy with the sh** load of work to do Icon_minitime1Mon Feb 13, 2017 6:38 pm

Hi all,
 and thanks for the welcome! I already know that I've come to the right place and becoming eager to start working on the beauty.

@Pete: From the engine number it should be roller tappet bike. It's got about 12k km on it. If I can't get rid of the noise (even though I already I bought two large bags of cable ties) I'm sure gonna pester you again...

@Il GRiSO & avgpetro: I'm well aware of the Euro 4 complication -that's why I said I'm not sure if it's ever going be back on the road again. Of course it's absolutely impossible for me to do a type approval (not even Moto Guzzi was able to do so). But as avgpetro said: It already has a type approval in the EU. So the only remaining question is, if it's been registered before Jan 1st 2017.
Well, it was. But so far nobody's been able to tell me if registration outside the EU is relevant. I think so, because the day of first registration in German documents is usually set to match the original documents (e.g. oldtimer imports from the U.S.).
Really, nobody's been able to tell me for sure so far. That's why I have a lawyer looking into this mess right now.

I'll keep you posted
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Street
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PostSubject: Re: The new guy with the sh** load of work to do   The new guy with the sh** load of work to do Icon_minitime1Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:27 pm

Welcome, Ingo.
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https://WWW.REIQUAM.COM
sidrat
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PostSubject: Re: The new guy with the sh** load of work to do   The new guy with the sh** load of work to do Icon_minitime1Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:12 pm

you could import into another european country first? we are still selling them in the UK under Euro 3 for a bit? worst case is to import it somewhere else and sell it or swap it for one that works for you locally. Just a thought.
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Il Griso
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PostSubject: Re: The new guy with the sh** load of work to do   The new guy with the sh** load of work to do Icon_minitime1Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:52 am

Ingo,

The point is, if the GRiSO was already registered in an EU-Member State (es geht um die Erstzulassung - um es deutlich zu sagen: hatte die GRiSO bereits angemeldet und hatte eine EU Nummerntafel ?).

If this was the case, then you will have no problem at all.
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Il Griso
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PostSubject: Re: The new guy with the sh** load of work to do   The new guy with the sh** load of work to do Icon_minitime1Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:09 am

Ingo,

I just phoned to a colleague of me from IVM Germany (Industrieverband Motorrad Deutschland).

His statement is very clear and you will love it...

If your GRiSO (which has a Type approval for Euro 3 - and this is the case anyway) was already registered (angemeldet) somewhere on this world before 01.01.2017 (and I assume this is the case for Australia) you can bring the bike back to Europe and register is there (as it is a used bike already - dann gilt in der EU Bestandschutz).

But organize as much documents as you can get to show it in Europe.

For further questions, if have added the mail document with the contact adress of my collegue Christoph Gatzweiler (Director of technical affairs, IVM)

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thekenheld
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PostSubject: Re: The new guy with the sh** load of work to do   The new guy with the sh** load of work to do Icon_minitime1Fri Feb 17, 2017 11:09 am

YAY! Thanks for your effort and even more for the good news! Meanwhile I also received similar information from the lawyers of ADAC (German automobile club) -I'm pretty confident now.

I can finally start throwing money at it...
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Il Griso
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PostSubject: Re: The new guy with the sh** load of work to do   The new guy with the sh** load of work to do Icon_minitime1Fri Feb 17, 2017 11:15 am

Ingo,
Was a pleasure to help you, but get as much documents in Australia together, to convince EU type approval authorities. Inform them, that there could be possibly a query from the TA authority.
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thekenheld
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PostSubject: Re: The new guy with the sh** load of work to do   The new guy with the sh** load of work to do Icon_minitime1Fri Feb 17, 2017 11:30 am

Actually, the bike's never been to Australia, it's been registered in Asia. I have the certificate of registration mentioning the date of first registration (and all previous owners), a license for export, again mentioning the registration date and an insurance record.
The COC can be ordered directly from Piaggio Group.

Should be fine cheers
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Il Griso
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PostSubject: Re: The new guy with the sh** load of work to do   The new guy with the sh** load of work to do Icon_minitime1Fri Feb 17, 2017 11:36 am

So the bike is not registered in Australia?
If I interpret this correctly, you are driving in Australia with an Asian number-plate.



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thekenheld
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PostSubject: Re: The new guy with the sh** load of work to do   The new guy with the sh** load of work to do Icon_minitime1Fri Feb 17, 2017 11:41 am

No, I never brought the bike to Australia. I spent some time in Asia and was riding the bike there -at the moment it's sitting in a container, being shipped to Germany.
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Il Griso
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PostSubject: Re: The new guy with the sh** load of work to do   The new guy with the sh** load of work to do Icon_minitime1Fri Feb 17, 2017 11:45 am

You are travelling a lot round the globe.
Where are you located in Germany?
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