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 Didn't want to hear this

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Nobleswood
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PostSubject: Re: Didn't want to hear this   Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:55 pm

Here's the pic of the tappets[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Didn't want to hear this   Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:11 pm

Definitely rollers. Look, I wish I could tell you what it was, the sound file you sent me was horrendous. Have you double checked the clearances? The thing is you say it comes and goes. If it was valve set on the wrong stroke it would sound awful the whole time.

To me it does sound like a chain type noise but it could be anything. Are the bolts holding the flinger plates/sprockets on still tight? You said the tensioner blades still seem to be intact.

It doesn't have to be moving to make the horrid noise? So it has to be engine or clutch related.

I only wish I was closer, I love diagnosing shit like this.

Pete
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Nobleswood
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PostSubject: Re: Didn't want to hear this   Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:25 pm

The come & goes comment ; the first time I heard it the sound went away after adding more oil. The last. 3 times I have started the engine the sound appears as the engine warms up. Getting gradually louder until you notice it.

The sound is engine speed related being stationary or moving changes nothing.

What are the flinger plate / sprockets ?

I'm also wary of running it with that sphincter tightening noise as well.
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ghezzi
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PostSubject: Re: Didn't want to hear this   Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:33 pm

I'd be sending oil sample off to be tested, at least that would tell you if a bearing or some other metal part was flogging itself to death. Also the type of particulate in the oil would indicate suspect component.

If the oil is clear and clean, that's a good sign.

Have you got a cracked exhaust? Check around the pretzel under the gearbox etc.
Are header pipes too close to frame/engine cases, needs at least 3mm clearance from everything.
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Nobleswood
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PostSubject: Re: Didn't want to hear this   Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:49 pm

I'm thinking I should drop the sump & have a look there for particles, and the state of the oil.

The cracked exhaust is something I've suspected as well. But after tightening the studs & examining the headers found nothing. Another comment; as the headers heat up pretty quickly I would have thought I'd hear the sound from a cracked header before the 4-5 mins it takes for the noise to develop.

After the 2nd time I heard the noise I set the clearances just to cross that off the list.

Operating the clutch or gearbox makes no difference.

Ghezzi, send me your e-mail & I'll get you the sound file. You might have an idea of what it is. For that matter I can send to whoever wants to listen & make suggestions Thumbs Up
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Bill Hagan
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PostSubject: Re: Didn't want to hear this   Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:05 pm



Please.

wrhagan AT earthlink dot net

Not, of course, with any pretensions I will be of help, but am very interested.

Bill
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ghezzi
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PostSubject: Re: Didn't want to hear this   Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:55 pm

And I'm as deaf as a post ......................

All contact details below ... click on the links.

While you've got the sump off, check for the gasket "blow out" (spacer plate) listed in other posts around here.

Here tiz;
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Check out Tony's pic, near the bottom you can see missing piece of gasket
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MalG
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PostSubject: Re: Didn't want to hear this   Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:04 am

Bugger. There go the easy options.
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ghezzi
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PostSubject: Re: Didn't want to hear this   Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:28 pm

Bottom end noises are usually a loud "clanging" and will happen when cold when load is applied.
Piston slap will also happen cold and go away as it warms up.

I'm banking on internal gasket blow out, loosing oil pressure when hot and tensioner being at the end of the lubrication line, gets noisy first.

Your sound file just sounds like massive tappet noise. But I am deaf, my eyes are going and I'm losing something else but can't remember what it is  ....................................
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Didn't want to hear this   Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:33 pm

Marbles Wayne, you're loosing your marbles. Now take your geritol like a good boy and have a nice little lie down....Very Happy
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Nobleswood
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PostSubject: Re: Didn't want to hear this   Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:16 pm

I'm also thinking it's top end noise.

The oil pressure light has never come on in anger, if anything I have too much oil in it. I bought a new dipstick & compared the marks on it to the oil temp dipstick it came with. The marks are different leading me to believe there too much oil in the sump.
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Bill Hagan
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PostSubject: Re: Didn't want to hear this   Sun Apr 23, 2017 4:32 am


FWIW, I shared sound link with Guzzi wrench at Winchester Motosports.

He said this: "Sounds metal-like ... wrist pin or item spinning at crank speed. From the sound of the exhaust note and speed of motor could be valve train but sounds louder than a dropped lifter."

Naturally, I don't know if that is of the "buy low, sell high" sort of advice or helpful.

Bill

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Nobleswood
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PostSubject: Re: Didn't want to hear this   Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:48 pm

Thanks Bill,

It all helps. Friday I took the bike to All Seasons Motorsports in Wooster & left it with them. Hope to hear back by mid week.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Didn't want to hear this   Sun Apr 23, 2017 3:57 pm

I'm wondering if the oil shield on the rest main has come loose and is vibrating? That would be a first! But I would think that would be noisy from the get-go.

Pete
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Nobleswood
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PostSubject: Re: Didn't want to hear this   Sat Apr 29, 2017 10:13 am

Here's my update:
8 days ago put the bike in the van & took it to All Seasons Motor sports in Wooster Ohio.

As of yesterday they had just got to it & didn't hear the noise. So I sent in the sound clip.
Haven't heard back yet.

Just now a new post up on WildGuzzi: 'Hydraulic cam chain tensioner'
'Changed the sump spacer gasket & the ticking has gone away.'

Banging my head against the wall I realised I hadn't looked at that.
And Ghezzi had called that as well; 'I'm banking on internal gasket blowout, losing oil pressure when hot and tensioner being at the end of the lubrication line gets noisy first.'

Bugger! Now I have to pay someone to do that ! Crying or Very sad
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Nobleswood
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PostSubject: Re: Didn't want to hear this   Fri May 12, 2017 4:01 pm

Long story short; I got the bike back from the dealer , they had just concluded that it was a tappet issue Shocked

Just dropped the sump spacer and

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The gasket is ripped at the oil gallery !

Pete you mentioned in a thread somewhere that there are better gaskets for the spacer. Have you got a link ?
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Didn't want to hear this   Fri May 12, 2017 4:09 pm

Look, I just buy t,hem from my local supplier, they're probably the standard mob who make most of the Italian aftermarket ones, sorry, I can't remember their name offhand. I have three in stock, would you like me to flick one over to you? You can take it in to AF1 and show 'em and they can try and source them.

I'm beginning to think this problem is a bit more than a few isolated incidents........

Anyway, I'll pop into the workshop today and take some pics so you can see the difference. The aftermarket ones are considerably thicker and more robust in construction.

Pete

Whoops! Got you mixed up with the bloke who's just had his bike rollerised in TX. Sorry. Can still send you a gasket easily enough.
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Nobleswood
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PostSubject: Re: Didn't want to hear this   Fri May 12, 2017 4:14 pm

Thanks for the offer but I'm just going to put in the green gasket GU14003600 ( it looks like )I got from Harper's before I forget where everything goes.
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ghezzi
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PostSubject: Re: Didn't want to hear this   Fri May 12, 2017 4:41 pm

Green gaskets are the go! cheers
These are reusable if you don't use any gasket goo on them.

My Bellagio had the thin black tappet cover gaskets from the factory, they were always leaking.
Replaced with the thicker green gaskets that were standard on my old Cali's & Le Mans.

When I put Pete's windage tray in my bike, I think he supplied it with two thick green gaskets.
The old thin black sump gasket just tore apart on removal. I've dropped the sump several times to change the filter, gaskets are still good.
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Nobleswood
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PostSubject: Re: Didn't want to hear this   Fri May 12, 2017 6:03 pm

Ghezzi,

You're my hero ! After finding the torn gasket I'm optimistic about having fixed the problem.

Next question: the bike had the sump off for a couple of days, oil came out of many parts I thought were drained down. Can I pull the plugs and turn the engine over for a minute or so to get the oil up where it needs to go before I fire it up ?

The filter is filled but not sure if the ECU will get damaged ?
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Didn't want to hear this   Fri May 12, 2017 6:50 pm

No need, if you've pre filled the filter you'll be fine.

Just add three litres of oil and hit the start button without goosing the throttle, it really takes very little time for pressure to come up, it's not like the rear camshaft bearing on a six cylinder Land Cruiser! They take a while to pump up!

The only thing that might happen is it will throw dashboard errors 07 and 08 but that'll be all. Just clear them if they do come up and it'll all be good!

Pete
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Nobleswood
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PostSubject: Re: Didn't want to hear this   Fri May 12, 2017 6:54 pm

Thanks for the information.

So.. how would I clear the error codes again ? scratch
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ghezzi
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PostSubject: Re: Didn't want to hear this   Fri May 12, 2017 9:43 pm

If you are paranoid like me, remove the 2 outer plugs but connect the plug leads and lay the plugs on metal portion of the head. This way they will be earthed and fire as needed but no combustion will take place, nor will ecu damage occur.

When oil light goes out, Geronimo!

Quite a few here have experienced the gasket blow out, but not the noisy top end when hot.
It was the only logical explanation for a numpty like me. geek
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Didn't want to hear this   Fri May 12, 2017 10:22 pm

Nobleswood wrote:
Thanks for the information.

So.. how would I clear the error codes again ? scratch

Go into 'Menu', scroll to 'Diagnostics', enter the code 12425, scroll to 'delete errors' choose ''Yes', retreat out.
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Nobleswood
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PostSubject: Re: Didn't want to hear this   Sat May 13, 2017 3:32 am

Thanks Guys, cheers

Apologies for the neebie questions & I appreciate your patience but I've only riden the bike twice for a total of 190 miles & I'm still unfamiliar with it.

On a parallel thread on WildGuzzi, Pete you mentioned that greasing the swinging arm bearings was a higher priority if the bike was out in the rain. The swinging arm bolt is orange with rust so I guess thats next on the list. Rolling Eyes
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