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 About ready to throw in the towel on sump removal

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Triman023
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PostSubject: About ready to throw in the towel on sump removal   Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:08 pm

So I need to remove the sump and the spacer above it and replace the gaskets due to the oil light coming on when the engine is hot . Pulled the pipes off, easy. Removed the kick stand bolts that go into the spacer. Tried to remove the upper kick stand bolt but no go, magic loosening oil, NO - Breaker bar, starting to round off bolt - Impact wrench + 6 point socket  NO-  Breaker bar + 6 point socket = shattered socket! Hoping since its bolted to the engine the spacer can still be removed.
Retrench and drain oil, remove sump pan bolts, remove breather tube, tap tap tap on the sump  NO GO

scratch

Irish temper starting to wind up, stopping now.

Questions. does the oil filter need to come off to remove the sump?
Also looks like the oil cooler is also bolted to the spacer. What else is bolted to this spacer?

Thinking about polishing the pipes and bolting all back to gather and taking it to the dealer.

What say you?
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Papa Lazarou
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PostSubject: Re: About ready to throw in the towel on sump removal   Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:21 pm

It could be that extra special Loctite the Italians use on bolts. Give it some heat-to melt the Loctite- and try again.
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Triman023
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PostSubject: Re: About ready to throw in the towel on sump removal   Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:31 pm

Yes on heat but need to get a torch.

Found the answer on the sump, remove oil filter and undo 4 bolts in the filter well.

Going to try again on the sump
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Guzzi Cat
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PostSubject: Re: About ready to throw in the towel on sump removal   Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:33 pm

Make sure you removed all the sump bolts out!! There are 4 bolts that are holding the sump around the filter. I think it is 18 bolts altogether that need to come out.

The 4 bolts are easily missed. Embarassed

Watch that Irish temper, go have a whisky and a smoke, all will be better tomorrow. cheers

Sorry too late, you already got it Very Happy
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Triman023
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PostSubject: Re: About ready to throw in the towel on sump removal   Sun Jul 02, 2017 3:10 pm

Got the oil filter out with a ton of effort. Used the old Ghetto trick of folding sandpaper into the wrench and pounding it onto the filter. Then of course I dropped the filter and spilled oil all over.

HOWEVER!  I pulled the remaining 4 bolts out and the sump is MINE!   cheers

Thanks for the help!  I am not what i would call a mechanic, I am slow and get confused but I do know when to stop and ask for help.

Sump has the thin black gasket, assuming that the spacer also has the same and that is probably what is causing my internal oil leak. Hopefully, the thicker green gaskets will solve this problem.

Next step is the spacer, need to pull the two oil radiator mounting bolts and the four spacer bolts. Hoping the kickstand will not impede my progress.
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Bill Hagan
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PostSubject: Re: About ready to throw in the towel on sump removal   Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:08 pm

Triman023 wrote:
Got the oil filter out with a ton of effort. Used the old Ghetto trick of folding sandpaper into the wrench and pounding it onto the filter. Then of course I dropped the filter and spilled oil all over.

HOWEVER!  I pulled the remaining 4 bolts out and the sump is MINE!   cheers

Thanks for the help!  I am not what i would call a mechanic, I am slow and get confused but I do know when to stop and ask for help.

****

Next step is the spacer, need to pull the two oil radiator mounting bolts and the four spacer bolts. Hoping the kickstand will not impede my progress.

You are better than I am as you "do know when to stop and ask for help."  Wink

BTDT on all of your latest adventure.  I was surprised at how much oil remained in the cooler.  I was also befuddled in reinstalling it as an older thread here relates.  Sounds easy, but stumped me for a bit.

Best wishes.

Bill
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Triman023
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PostSubject: Re: About ready to throw in the towel on sump removal   Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:35 pm

Question:  The book says to remove the internal oil filters, is this necessary to replace the gasket?
also there is a connection between the oil radiator and the spacer? Do I just un hook the hose to the spacer?
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: About ready to throw in the towel on sump removal   Sun Jul 02, 2017 5:26 pm

Triman023 wrote:
Question:  The book says to remove the internal oil filters, is this necessary to replace the gasket?
also there is a connection between the oil radiator and the spacer? Do I just un hook the hose to the spacer?

Yeah, the pick-ups come off, a couple of bolts each. The big lubrication pick up is, from memory, held on by the two front spacer bolts but I haven't had one off for a while so I'm going from info stored in my feeble brain.

As for the hose? There is no connection to the spacer. Hose comes out of the side of the timing chest, (Well, it connects to a fitting on the side of the timing chest.) and goes to the cooler then just goes up from the front of the cooler to the splitter that takes feed to the cooling galleries in the heads.

Pete
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Triman023
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PostSubject: Re: About ready to throw in the towel on sump removal   Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:45 pm

Got the spacer off!  it just dropped off with a bit of encouragement I didn't need to pull any filters. 4 bolts and its off and dripping oil.
And low and behold the gasket is torn!  Clearly a case of internal bleeding says the Doctor.

Look see:
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Closer view
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Tomorrow the thicker gaskets and put it all back together, after polishing the headers.

Now I won't have to worry about the hot weather low oil pressure problem.

Thanks for the encouragement!    bounce
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Triman023
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PostSubject: Re: About ready to throw in the towel on sump removal   Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:47 pm

A lot of my confusion is from looking at the pictures in the shop manual! It shows the sump off with the oil filter still on. They must have replaced it after removing the sump.

Also there is a picture that looks like the oil radiator is hooked up to the spacer.
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Triman023
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PostSubject: Re: About ready to throw in the towel on sump removal   Sun Jul 02, 2017 8:09 pm

I stand corrected. I just looked at the sump, it can be removed without removing the oil filter.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: About ready to throw in the towel on sump removal   Sun Jul 02, 2017 8:23 pm

No need to remove the spin on filter, I was thinking of the strainer's for the pumps.
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Grisonut
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PostSubject: Re: About ready to throw in the towel on sump removal   Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:53 am

For the record, you didn't need to remove the side stand upper bolt bracket.
It's fastened to the block so not interfering with the sump spacer.
I did the job on my bike a month ago or so and Iloosened it up a tad so it allows wiggling room to remove the spacer.
They gasket on mine was buggered up pretty good...
The earlier Grisos didn't have this gasket issue (my bike is a 2013). Fucking Piaggio! lol
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Triman023
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PostSubject: Re: About ready to throw in the towel on sump removal   Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:52 pm

2013's RULE!   Don't know why, just had to say it!
I left the top bolt on the kickstand alone and the spacer went on OK. Also didn't need to remove the strainers.

All ready for the sump, spinning the oil filter on to the spacer then putting the sump over it.

Also, is it better to remove the spark plugs and spin the engine a few revs to get the oil up in the engine?
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ghezzi
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PostSubject: Re: About ready to throw in the towel on sump removal   Mon Jul 03, 2017 5:08 pm

Doesn't hurt, just remove outer plugs, put them back into the plug lead and rest on engine so they can earth. This is to protect coils/ignition system from spiking.
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Triman023
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PostSubject: Re: About ready to throw in the towel on sump removal   Mon Jul 03, 2017 5:10 pm

Thanks! Will do
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Triman023
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PostSubject: Re: About ready to throw in the towel on sump removal   Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:35 pm

Spun the engine with the plugs on the header to move the oil. Put new plugs in and fired it up, no oil light!  Now I have to take it out in the heat and see, but this should cure the problem.

I guess the quality control on those gaskets is inconsistent since not everyone has this problem.

So I have nice polished headers and few new tools. Will save the towel for throwing in on another job...

Thanks!
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