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 Hello from California -- just bought a 2009 GRiSO!

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GuZeee
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PostSubject: Hello from California -- just bought a 2009 GRiSO!   Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:37 am

Hi all, I'm new to the forum, after recently picking up a lightly-used beautiful black 2009 GRiSO 1200 8v (only 6400 miles!) I love the bike so much! What a blast to ride, and it's like having fine art in my garage to look at.

I've been busy terrifying myself reading about flat-tappet failure stories, but the dealer where it's been serviced is assuring me it's not something to worry about. Worst case if I have to upgrade with the roller tappet kit at some point, it's still worth it. But it seems these issues have been happening more in cooler/wet climates, maybe in CA not so much? (I'm in Gilroy CA where it is warm, and often over 100F in summer.)

I have another bike for long trips and commuting, so I wasn't planning on putting lots of miles on this baby. Then again, it's so much fun, that might change...

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PostSubject: Re: Hello from California -- just bought a 2009 GRiSO!   Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:39 am

Wow, that's weird, "GRiSO" got capitalized strangely. Is that a thing on this forum?
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Steak
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PostSubject: Re: Hello from California -- just bought a 2009 GRiSO!   Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:38 am

Your dealer is a moron.

It's an extremely serious issue and will NEED to be converted.  This is not up for debate...

Congrats on getting your GRiSO, it's a fantastic bike.  Just don't dick around waiting for the tappets and cam lobes to start shedding material throughout your engine...

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2012 MOTO GUZZI GRiSO 1200SE

2013 MOTO GUZZI STELVIO 1200NTX - Orange Blossom Special
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PostSubject: Re: Hello from California -- just bought a 2009 GRiSO!   Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:12 pm

Welcome, GuZee. The debate has long been settled - read other posts on the Ghetto and you'll see.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Hello from California -- just bought a 2009 GRiSO!   Fri Aug 04, 2017 1:56 pm

I've done about a hundred rollerisations now. The flat tappet engines are all doomed. Rollerisation early is the only cure.

I strongly suggest that next time you have the bike serviced you ask them to pull the left hand cambox at least and take pictures of the tappet faces for you. Or, if they are unwilling? Do it yourself! It's a fifteen minute job.

Since instituting a policy of inspecting every flat tappet bike that comes through my shop I've seen a 100% failure rate with clearly visible damage by 20,000km. FWIW I live in one of the driest areas of the driest inhabited continent on earth. A drier climate may delay the inevitable but it won't prevent it.

The longer you leave it the greater the risk of serious bottom end damage.

Pete

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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Hello from California -- just bought a 2009 GRiSO!   Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:53 pm

Welcome!

Find a new dealer.


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waterbottle
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PostSubject: Re: Hello from California -- just bought a 2009 GRiSO!   Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:15 pm

Hi GuZeee. Welcome to to madness cheers
This bike may have already been converted to Roller tappets ? Take a rocker cover off and have a look, take a photo and post it here for us to see please Thumbs Up
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NorthernProducer
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PostSubject: Re: Hello from California -- just bought a 2009 GRiSO!   Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:43 pm

Welcome...you are getting good advice here.
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PostSubject: Re: Hello from California -- just bought a 2009 GRiSO!   Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:23 pm

Wow, thanks for the advice everyone. I'll take a look to see if it has roller tappets, but I doubt it; I would think the previous owner would know if it had been done.

I saw a video on how to remove the cambox to inspect the flat tappets for wear. It looks straightforward, but I'm worried about preserving the cam timing if I want to take pics and then reassemble it. The video showed using a wire tie to hold the cam sprocket in place, but is that sufficient for lining things up exactly on reassembly?

The dealer where it has been serviced and I am taking it to for inspection is California Speed-Sports in Livermore CA. Does anyone have experience with them? I wonder if it's still possible to get the free roller kit for a 2009?

The engine does seem to run great without any concerning valve noise, but then again I don't know what to compare it to. And I realize what you are saying: even if it's good now, with flat tappets it is likely to fail in the future.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Hello from California -- just bought a 2009 GRiSO!   Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:42 pm

Not 'Likely' to fail. CERTAIN to fail!

Yes, the video was done by me. If you keep tension on the chain as you take the sprocket off the cam you won't loose the timing and anyway, if you've set the motor at TDC and don't move the crank if it does skip a tooth on the idler shaft it will be obvious when you try and re-install the sprocket.

As for getting the kit FOC? That depends on whether you have a service history that is up to date and how hard your dealer is willing to push on your behalf. Since they are denying there's a problem my guess would be that won't be very hard.

Pete
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PostSubject: Re: Hello from California -- just bought a 2009 GRiSO!   Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:15 am

I took a peek under a valve cover. Doesn’t look like roller tappets. Sad [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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PostSubject: Re: Hello from California -- just bought a 2009 GRiSO!   Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:17 am

BTW thanks for the advice Pete, and for making that very helpful video!
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PostSubject: Re: Hello from California -- just bought a 2009 GRiSO!   Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:28 am

Need to see these at an angle, but they do look like flatties.

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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Hello from California -- just bought a 2009 GRiSO!   Sat Aug 05, 2017 1:48 am

Nah, they're flatties. You didn't bugger the plug caps getting them out did you?

Pete
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davem
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PostSubject: Re: Hello from California -- just bought a 2009 GRiSO!   Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:14 am

It pisses me off greatly the stupidity/ignorance of the dealers who punt out these bikes to the unsuspecting public. There is only one dealer in the UK that has ever come clean on this issue the rest are more than happy to sell IEDs to the great unwashed.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Hello from California -- just bought a 2009 GRiSO!   Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:34 am

What I don't get is where is the business benefit in this? Not just at a dealer level but all the way up to the top!

For most of you 'End Users' though it's the dealer. Why not acknowledge the problem and work, as fast as possible, to solve it! That way you will, (Generally.) have happy customers who are willing to spend more money with you! It's not rocket science.

Why is it they are unwilling to investigate? For fuck's sakes most of these shops have other brands and really, believe me, nothing is simpler than a Guzzi! If they are terrified of taking a cambox out of an 8V Guzzi what in the name of all that's holy are they doing to do if you ask them to change the shims on your Panigalle or RSV-4?!

Look. If I can make a decent part time living working on these bits of shit in a shed in the middle of bumfuck why can't these assholes see a problem, identify it and deal with it? It's so far beyond stupid it makes my brain hurt and feel ike I need either a lie down or to retreat to a corner where I can suck my thumb and rock autistically!

Pete
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PostSubject: Re: Hello from California -- just bought a 2009 GRiSO!   Sat Aug 05, 2017 4:10 am

I can understand non Guzzi dealers who receive the odd bike in part exchange not fully understanding the problem. It's the main Guzzi dealers who are the real culprits and some of their attitude comes from their relationship with Piaggio who regularly prop up the rest of the trade  in dealer/importer relationship surveys. (source: UK Dealer News).

BMW seem to be at the other end of the spectrum with a never ending stream of recalls and safety notices on their bikes. The guy who delivers my groceries bought a brand new R1200RT and in two years the bike has not been free of warranty or recall issues. At one stage he was supplied with a K1600RT for three months while the suspension was waiting to be fixed. The bike was deemed unfit to ride and the was picked up by the dealer from his place of work rather than him riding it any further.

I am rather disillusioned with whole motorcycle trade these days, hence going retro with a 1100 GRiSO and judging by what I see and hear at rallies and meeting places I'm not alone.
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PostSubject: Re: Hello from California -- just bought a 2009 GRiSO!   Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:14 am

Pete Roper wrote:
Nah, they're flatties. You didn't bugger the plug caps getting them out did you?

Pete

Damn, how did you know, Pete? Do you have a hidden camera in my garage or something? Smile

Before I remembered your trick from the video of using a zip tie to pull the plug cap out, I tried yanking on it directly and the wire came out. When I put it back together I stuffed it back in, and the bike runs, but I’ll ask the dealer to replace both spark plug cables when I get it serviced on August 19.

I think the cables might have been bad anyway: a couple of times it stumbled at low RPM, and once the red “Service” indicator came on momentarily. It felt like an ignition miss, so I’m hoping new cables (with boot) fixes it up. I do like how easy it is to get at everything on this motor.

All my previous bikes have been Japanese, and none has ever had any trouble at all. They just work. But this bike is a lot more exciting, and I was warned about the added maintenance and service requirements. It is going to be my hobby I guess Smile
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Hello from California -- just bought a 2009 GRiSO!   Sat Aug 05, 2017 11:04 am

Generally there are no special, or added, maintenance requirements. Don't go with the factory caps, if you think you've buggered them replace them with NGK SB05E caps and be done with it.

The correct way to remove them is to lever them up from the bottom by inserting a long, thin screwdriver through the cooling port above the exhaust header in the head and levering them up.

With the exception of the flat tappet fiasco the GRiSO is generally a very reliable package and a turn-key proposition. They have one or two minor niggles that may or may not rear their ugly heads from time to time but as a rule they are stone axe simple and as reliable as an anvil.

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PostSubject: Re: Hello from California -- just bought a 2009 GRiSO!   Sat Aug 05, 2017 1:35 pm

Thanks for the tip Pete! I just ordered a pair of those plug caps on Amazon. A lot cheaper than getting new Guzzi wire sets!
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PostSubject: Re: Hello from California -- just bought a 2009 GRiSO!   Sat Aug 05, 2017 6:44 pm

It should be an automatic repair. If there is a problem with tappets and a bike goes into a dealer then that should be the first thing they fix. Not wait for the buyer to bring it back with a stuffed engine.
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PostSubject: Re: Hello from California -- just bought a 2009 GRiSO!   Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:05 pm

I’m going to talk to them about it when I bring it in. It might be that the manager of the service department is not aware of it but the mechanics will know. I’ll ask if they have done any of the roller kit swaps and if they can do an inspection of the tappets. It’s supposedly one of the best Guzzi dealers around so I’m not writing them off just yet. I can always take it someplace else if they can’t help me, but Guzzi dealers are few and far between I think there’s one in San Francisco.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Hello from California -- just bought a 2009 GRiSO!   Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:25 pm

While you can screw about trying to convince people who don't give a shit by the time you've finally won the battle (If in fact you do ) you'll probably my find it easier and not a lot more expensive to just buy the necessary parts and fix it.

When I bought my Stelvio I knew it was fucked and I could of wasted endless time taking it to an 'Authorised Dealer' since I'm no longer one, (Thank all that's holy!) and tried to convince some ignorant shitgibbon that I was entitled to an A kit. Even thinking about it makes me want to slash my wrists! I just bought the bloody kit and fixed it. Even if I had got it fixed by someone else chances are they would of done more damage and I would of been worse off!

Your bike needs a 'C' Kit. Elsewhere I've listed the best way of going about this but basically it's buy the 'B' kit and add the other bits you'll need separately. Parts all up will be about $1000 at current exchange rates. Then fix it yerself or pay someone competent. All up it takes about 8-8.5 hrs to do the job properly with a 'C' kit.
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PostSubject: Re: Hello from California -- just bought a 2009 GRiSO!   Sat Aug 05, 2017 10:22 pm

Some 20 odd thou kilometres ago Pete Roper did the rollerisation job (C Kit) on my 2009 GRiSO 8v, which had undeniable damage to the tappets and discolouration on the cam lobes and (knock on wood) she has been running totally beautifully since. Don't hesitate - get it done!
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PostSubject: Re: Hello from California -- just bought a 2009 GRiSO!   Sat Aug 05, 2017 10:31 pm

Yeah if I don’t get anywhere with the dealer I’ll probably buy the kit and do it myself. Does it require a new ECU map or any instruments or special tools that only dealers have? If not, I feel like I should be able to do it myself. I’ve taken heads off of cars and motorcycles before without bad results. Smile
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