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sidrat
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PostSubject: Service now or later   Wed 18 Oct 2017, 09:03

So it is getting near to that time of the year where the Grio is ridden maybe only one a month (i just dont like all the salt on the roads).

It is due an oil change shortly, but not until the near year, however do i leave it sitting in old oil over winter or give it a spring service now?
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eeyore
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PostSubject: Re: Service now or later   Wed 18 Oct 2017, 10:11

How many miles on the oil?
What grade/quality?
How does it look / smell/ feel?

If you change it now it will be sat in clean oil over winter ready for next spring.

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paulbrice
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PostSubject: Re: Service now or later   Wed 18 Oct 2017, 10:15

Probably OK either way but best approach would be change the oil; give a good long thrash and then park it up. This addresses 1. better to park it up without any emulsion/water/acids in the oil and 2. Pure fresh oil is more aggressive on seals etc than oil that has been run in the engine for a while.
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paulbrice
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PostSubject: Re: Service now or later   Wed 18 Oct 2017, 10:18

....and spray everything with ac50f for protection
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davem
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PostSubject: Re: Service now or later   Wed 18 Oct 2017, 11:11

I'm in the same boat. This time of year the GRiSO will only be ridden when the roads are dry but a good thrash every few weeks is still possible and we may get a mild winter so I'm leaving the oil till spring. Assuming it gets changed at approx 6000 miles I can't see a problem.
I have a heated garage and none of my bikes have suffered from the dreaded milky oil syndrome but if I start the bike up in the winter it will do at least 20 miles to ensure everything is up to temperature. The worse thing is to start it up and leave it ticking over and go nowhere.
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eeyore
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PostSubject: Re: Service now or later   Wed 18 Oct 2017, 13:06

Just my opinion but 6000 miles is too long for these things.
The oil has a very wide viscosity range and will easily degrade out of specification.
If you plan occasional winter rides when the temperature is low and the engine has sat for numerous weeks, why would you risk tired oil?
If in doubt get it changed.
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nblades
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PostSubject: Re: Service now or later   Wed 18 Oct 2017, 15:21

I always change the oil in my bike just before putting it away for the winter, for all the same reasons others have just stated. When in doubt, change it out.
I also like to find a gas station that sells pure gas ( without ethanol ) for having less chance of moisture settling in the tank over the winter. But then it depends on how long are your winters.  Canadian motorcycles usually sit for 5 months without being used (except west coast people).
Winter is an opportunity to do maintenance!
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paulbrice
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PostSubject: Re: Service now or later   Wed 18 Oct 2017, 15:47

eeyore wrote:
Just my opinion but 6000 miles is too long for these things.
The oil has a very wide viscosity range and will easily degrade out of specification.
If you plan occasional winter rides when the temperature is low and the engine has sat for numerous weeks, why would you risk tired oil?
If in doubt get it changed.

I don't think any of that is even close to true..... full synthetics have high natural VI and are extremely stable to both shear and oxidative breakdown; GRiSO engine is not a big shear stress machine cf integrated wet multiplate clutch or turbo engines; additive packages are formulated for way over 6,000 miles...... so your oil won't easily degrade out of viscometric or wear/protection performance in under 6,000 miles unless you are track racing it in the desert.
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eeyore
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PostSubject: Re: Service now or later   Wed 18 Oct 2017, 16:28

paulbrice wrote:
eeyore wrote:
Just my opinion but 6000 miles is too long for these things.
The oil has a very wide viscosity range and will easily degrade out of specification.
If you plan occasional winter rides when the temperature is low and the engine has sat for numerous weeks, why would you risk tired oil?
If in doubt get it changed.

I don't think any of that is even close to true..... full synthetics have high natural VI and are extremely stable to both shear and oxidative breakdown; GRiSO engine is not a big shear stress machine cf integrated wet multiplate clutch or turbo engines; additive packages are formulated for way over 6,000 miles...... so your oil won't easily degrade out of viscometric or wear/protection performance in under 6,000 miles unless you are track racing it in the desert.



After 2500 miles (equivalent to 50 hours) send an oil sample for testing.
You are going to be shocked by the report.
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sidrat
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PostSubject: Re: Service now or later   Wed 18 Oct 2017, 16:43

paulbrice wrote:

I don't think any of that is even close to true..... full synthetics have high natural VI and are extremely stable to both shear and oxidative breakdown; GRiSO engine is not a big shear stress machine cf integrated wet multiplate clutch or turbo engines; additive packages are formulated for way over 6,000 miles...... so your oil won't easily degrade out of viscometric or wear/protection performance in under 6,000 miles unless you are track racing it in the desert.

Paul are you talking dirty again!!!
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sidrat
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PostSubject: Re: Service now or later   Wed 18 Oct 2017, 16:44

eeyore wrote:


After 2500 miles (equivalent to 50 hours) send an oil sample for testing.
You are going to be shocked by the report.

i am waiting with baited breath!!!
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paulbrice
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PostSubject: Re: Service now or later   Wed 18 Oct 2017, 16:51

Would be good to see pics of your report posted..... outside fuel dilution I wouldn't expect it to destroy high temperature/high shear viscosity (but ready to learn differently ...)
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JohnA
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PostSubject: Re: Service now or later   Wed 18 Oct 2017, 22:59

How about a GRiSO that lives in mostly warm weather, is garage kept and has only seen about 1500 miles this past year. Is there any justification to give it a yearly oil change? It only has 8500 total miles on it now (2014 GRiSO). I changed all oils last December with the Guzzi recommended oils from AF1.
thank you.
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paulbrice
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PostSubject: Re: Service now or later   Thu 19 Oct 2017, 09:12

I/m waiting to see what the oil report said !.....

In my experience - 10 years formulating & testing engine oil + specialist in viscometrics - modern full synthetics with good performance specs (API, VW, CCMC etc) will easily deliver against OEM drain intervals unless you have unusual operating conditions like racing, extreme hot/dust or cold/too many short trips. Doing reasonable length to warm engine is a key thing before parking up. So I would maintain 6,000 drains even I was doing just 1,500 miles a year.

All said I can't bring myself to accept 18,000 mile interval for my BMW X3 (dielsel 2 L Turbo) so cut that to 9,000 miles Very Happy

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sidrat
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PostSubject: Re: Service now or later   Thu 19 Oct 2017, 10:54

Yes paul, i too have two diesel cars and change them at half intervals. Back in the day(the 1970's) when i got the first of my 70 odd bikes, i did the same, but the oil that comes out of bikes in the past 10 years or so always seems in good condition to me, so i no longer bother.

The oil does however contain residue from the combustion process among other things and i wondered if they were held in suspension i could leave the bike over winter but if they were to settle either at the top or bottom of the oil, it may be worth changing.

I would not consider this as a problem as i would only keep a bike for a few ears, but the GRiSO is going to be a "lifer" (unless the V4 tuono at my local dealer tempts me) so i am looking at ways of improving its longevity.
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davem
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PostSubject: Re: Service now or later   Thu 19 Oct 2017, 11:30

paulbrice wrote:
I/m waiting to see what the oil report said !.....

In my experience  - 10 years formulating & testing engine oil + specialist in viscometrics - modern full synthetics with good performance specs (API, VW, CCMC etc) will easily deliver against OEM drain intervals unless you have unusual operating conditions like racing, extreme hot/dust or cold/too many short trips. Doing reasonable length to warm engine is a key thing before parking up. So I would maintain 6,000 drains even I was doing just 1,500 miles a year.


That's good enough for me.
Don't piss about, ride the bike like you stole it, dump the oil at 6,000 miles and enjoy.
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paulbrice
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PostSubject: Re: Service now or later   Thu 19 Oct 2017, 11:39

The additive packages in oil contain detergent and dispersant (and antiwear, anti-oxidant, anti-rust, anti-friction, EP anti-wear.......). Detergent neutralises acids from combustion (reduction in fuel S is helping also); dispersant keeps small contaminants/stuff/salts of neutralised acids in the bulk oil to prevent it 'sticking' on internal surfaces - stops carbon & lacquer build up on piston crowns/sides, oil control rings, etc.   The 'idea' is that the 'contaminants' in bulk oil travel to the oil filter and get trapped out rather than forming sludge in the engine.

So a major interval constraint is the oil filter which will go into internal bypass if it gets over-clogged.

IMHO, outside short trip water/emulsion, you shouldn't have any issues leaving the oil in stored bike up to std drain interval. I've even done 100k mile no drain tests (only top up for steady level) with cars fitted with centrifugal filters (emptied at regular intervals) and carbon substrate soaked in ZDDP (lifetime of anti-wear/anti-oxidant) & they were fine on cleanliness and wear on strip down.
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sidrat
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PostSubject: Re: Service now or later   Thu 19 Oct 2017, 11:42

ok Paul, i too, like Davem are convinced, i will service the bike in the new year, thanks
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sidrat
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PostSubject: Re: Service now or later   Thu 19 Oct 2017, 11:43

Paul, every 100,000 miles you recommend now, that will save me some money Acid Bath
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paulbrice
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PostSubject: Re: Service now or later   Thu 19 Oct 2017, 13:18

I'll come and fit the filter & active carbon bundle asap Keith.....with that fitted it may not last 100,000 miles but it will feel like it Very Happy

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JohnA
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PostSubject: Re: Service now or later   Thu 19 Oct 2017, 13:29

Paul,

Many thanks for your explanation on oil wear and saving me probably $150 USD and some heartburn!
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eeyore
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PostSubject: Re: Service now or later   Fri 20 Oct 2017, 15:50

We introduced regular oil testing as part of a preventative maintenance programme on our manufacturing plant 2 years ago. Most of the tests are for hydraulic and gear oil but the lab also gets the pleasure of testing the oil from my toys. It will be around 10 months before the GRiSO oil gets checks but I have results from an air-cooled Porsche 3.0 (20/50 mineral) and BMW E92 4.0 (10/60 synthetic).
The BMW was an occasional use weekend toy not tracked or spanked. In less than 4000 miles the oil viscosity reduced significantly.
I will add a copy of the BMW report when I get back next week.
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paulbrice
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PostSubject: Re: Service now or later   Fri 20 Oct 2017, 16:36

Thanks - and good to see it wasn't GRiSO specific Very Happy . Will be interesting to see how many data points by mileage and if there is any fuel dilution estimate......problem will (as always) be how to read one example across to a general rule. In the tests I've worked/seen in past it was up to 350 vehicles in fleet use and multiple vehicles all stripped down plus oil analysis to get OEM (BMW/MB/VW) oil quality approval - includes extended drain use approval.
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