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 Can't change gears above 6000rpm? Clutch problem?

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stdunkel
Carlotto
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PostSubject: Can't change gears above 6000rpm? Clutch problem?   Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:25 am

I'm the happy owner of a pre-owned 2014 GRiSO 1200 8VSE. When I bought it 3 month ago, it had 10500km on the clock. It has not been ridden much in the last year until I bought it. It was stored in a hangar inland exposed to heat and cold.
Only problem that became evident early and is already fixed was broken/split breather hoses causing a minor oil leak.

But here is a riddle that the mechanics who serviced the bike for me have no answer to, yet.
When I rev the engine above 6000 rpm the gear shifter seems stuck - until I pull the clutch again and revs drop below 6000.
It happens in ALL gears and pretty much all the time requiring to 'double clutch'.
If I stay below the 6000 rpm I can shift smoothly up and down without any issues.
Haven't found an entry here on the Ghetto, but am curious if anyone else had or has this strange behaviour - and hopefully knows how to fix it.

Ride safely,
Stefan


Last edited by stdunkel on Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:23 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added a zero and tried to fix the topic location in the forum)
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Can't change gears above 6000rpm? Clutch problem?   Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:33 am

Firstly bleed the clutch, for some reason CARC bikes are murder on clutch fluid. Secondly try puting the span adjustment to its widest and seeing if it improves. Thirdly try adjusting the gear lever.

If you can't sort it run it up to us so we can have a fiddle. Whatever is causing it can't be engine speed related as engine speed has no effect on either clutch operation or gearbox selector function.

Pete
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Can't change gears above 6000rpm? Clutch problem?   Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:10 pm

Mine occasionally does this when I frequently run it hard to redline when logging a map. It doesn’t do it any other time, and I don’t have a problem changing gears above 6000 (or any revs) any other time.


\_(ツ)_/
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stdunkel
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PostSubject: Re: Can't change gears above 6000rpm? Clutch problem?   Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:20 pm

Thanks guys, I'll give it a go. Changing the lever position from closest to furthest away from the handle bar improves the situation slightly. Glad you don't suspect anything major, Pete. Your input here on the forum is priceless. Happy to come for a visit at the doctor - any excuse to go for a ride is a good one ;-)

EDIT: Today I tried to bleed the clutch. Assuming that I do this correctly after learning from youtube, I would say that no major air bubbles came out. However, the breakfluid that came out looked dirty. Should I pump more through?
Regarding clutch lever adjustment, I had trouble with the little screw that is discussed in this post. It sits so tight, that it bit off the head of my allen key. Fortunately I could get it out of the screw head. On a quick test ride the situation remained unchanged.

I'll keep you posted.
Stefan
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GHTE
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PostSubject: Re: Can't change gears above 6000rpm? Clutch problem?   Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:13 pm

Yep pump the fluid until the fresh clean stuff comes out.
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Street
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PostSubject: Re: Can't change gears above 6000rpm? Clutch problem?   Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:35 pm

That's what she said.
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wyno
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PostSubject: Re: Can't change gears above 6000rpm? Clutch problem?   Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:58 am

Rude Sreet, funny, but rude. I like it.
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stdunkel
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PostSubject: Re: Can't change gears above 6000rpm? Clutch problem?   Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:46 pm

It is funny, indeed. What is not so funny is the fact that the situation has not changed, yet.
Pumped until the clean brake fluid came out. Used the missus' hair dryer to loosen that little screw and the pin in the clutch lever. Played with some adjustment. Clutch seems to do what it is supposed to. However, the gear lever is 'stuck' as long revs are above 6000K.

Without knowing sh!t about mechanics on a motorbike, I start to believe it is not clutch related.

How or what can I adjust on the gear lever?
I fiddled with the rod that lifts or lowers the lever, but that didn't seem to change anything either.

Another post that might discuss the same same but different is this : [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Will try and find out if and how that got fixed. But I don't have any strange noise.

Thanks everyone for your input.
Stefan
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Can't change gears above 6000rpm? Clutch problem?   Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:21 pm

Stefan, I really can't offer any help other than saying bring it up and let me look at it. Trying to diagnose something like this via the web is very difficult.

Pete
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stdunkel
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PostSubject: Re: Can't change gears above 6000rpm? Clutch problem?   Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:41 pm

Here is an update after my visit at 'Doctor Roper'.
We don't know what exactly the problem is, but what we know is the following:
- everything works as intended and the clutch behaves as designed below 6000rpm
- above 6000rpm something gets 'stuck' or hangs on ... there is still some level of friction for whatever reason

We also found out that gears can be shifted above 6000rpm by blipping the throttle bounce

So far so good.
During the test ride I had the honor opportunity to ride Pete's GRiSO - it felt different, way more agile and responsive than my 'pedestrian' bike.
He balanced the throttle bodies, which took away a fair amount of vibration.  Being new to a Guzzi, I considered that amount of vibration normal Shocked. Then he also installed one of Beetle's maps - not the AGO HF one, though because mine doesn't have a dB killer. What a difference it made!!!
Bike feels a few kilograms 'lighter' when accelerating, sounds better and takes at least 10% less fuel.

Cheers,
Stefan
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Can't change gears above 6000rpm? Clutch problem?   Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:42 pm

For whatever reason the friction plate is hanging up on the input shaft splines. Why? No idea. It may, eventually, free itself, but I wouldn't bank on it.

Pete

PS. There is absolutely nothing special about my bike in the engine department. It's just tuned and mapped properly. As for feeling 'Lighter' that may well be down to the new steering head bearings that were installed with the new, bored out, bottom yoke hor the Sachs/Matris forks. The steering lightened up appreciably when they were fitted. Not surprising really as the old ones were 100,000 Km old and had only been greased marginally by the factory. The old ones didn't look too bad but it now feels it steers like a small wheel bicycle! Very Happy
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mark111
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PostSubject: Re: Can't change gears above 6000rpm? Clutch problem?   Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:08 am

Just a thought, Pete you may or may not remember that my 08 Black one had a problem similar to this which we spent some time rooting around trying to fix.
We did find that the plunger on the lever for the master cylinder was loose (the little grub screw was loose) and it was winding in limiting the travel of the master cylinder piston. Once this was fixed it resolved most of the problem but occasionally the issue would show up.
Some time later prior to my trip across to Perth I found that the slave cylinder was leaking fluid past the piston seal, there was no external leak evident. After replacing the slave cylinder (known as command cylinder in the parts list) the issue totally disappeared and I had no further issues with the clutch. May not be the issue but might be worth a look if you haven't already.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Can't change gears above 6000rpm? Clutch problem?   Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:21 pm

Gotta do his swingarm bearings and shock linkage soon so it'd be an easy check. Good call. Thanks.

Pete
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