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sidrat
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PostSubject: New Adventure V85?   New Adventure V85? Icon_minitime1Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:09 am

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Guzzi Cat
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PostSubject: Re: New Adventure V85?   New Adventure V85? Icon_minitime1Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:03 am

I like it Thumbs Up  could be a fun little bike if it actually does deliver the claimed 80HP Question
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GHTE
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PostSubject: Re: New Adventure V85?   New Adventure V85? Icon_minitime1Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:21 pm

That is a sexy looking bike. Love it.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: New Adventure V85?   New Adventure V85? Icon_minitime1Tue Nov 07, 2017 2:26 pm

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80 HP? Must be an 8V. Valve covers look different. Stupid duck face.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: New Adventure V85?   New Adventure V85? Icon_minitime1Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:51 pm

It will all hinge on what is under those valve covers on the production model. There are a lot of things I'm not happy about from an engineering point of view which I'll cover later but the big issue is what is under the rocker covers. If it's just a Lario remake it will sink without a trace.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: New Adventure V85?   New Adventure V85? Icon_minitime1Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:19 pm

Single shock with no rising rate is a turd.

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relayer
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PostSubject: Re: New Adventure V85?   New Adventure V85? Icon_minitime1Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:30 pm

KTM has proven that you can make a great rear suspension without having a rising rate linkage installed.  Can Moto Guzzi do the same?

Looking at the picture makes me say no they can't...Looks like the way Harley mounts shocks....sad.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: New Adventure V85?   New Adventure V85? Icon_minitime1Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:32 am

And herein lies the crux.

Unless you are looking for a track bike or a seriously competitive off roader there is always going to have to be compromises.

In the 'Modern Whirled' power is the last of our problems. Anything over 50hp is more than adequate, really, I toured all over Europe, east and west, forty years ago on a bike with *Only* that. What is the screamingly important 'Cutting Edge' is suspension and handling complimented by brakes!

Yes, you can get a cantilever system to work acceptably, especially if it isn't challenged. But a rising rate system isn't that much more expensive and it has, at least in my opinion, huge benefits.

I'll accept twin sided cantilever as long as it works and isn't dumbed down, (like my Mana was!) but I really don't want a lot of *Un-neccessary* bullshit on it masquerading as a 'Huge Step Forward'.

I love the new tech, even though I admit I struggle to get my head around some of it but I also believe that if any human endeavour, even one as luxurious, simplistic and ultimately selfish as motorbike design is to continue it means change and a reliance on those great human traits of large brains and opposable thumbs!

Bring on the suspension and brake technology. The motors? Meh! The electrics are coming, whether you like it or not.....

Pete
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Grisonut
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PostSubject: Re: New Adventure V85?   New Adventure V85? Icon_minitime1Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:13 am

Single damper bolted to the side of the bike as opposed to the center?
I'm sure it's OK for asphalt but I question the efficiency in off road situation...I'm talking thrashing this thing around hard, not going slow in 2nd gear on gravel roads. lol
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LBC Tenni
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PostSubject: Re: New Adventure V85?   New Adventure V85? Icon_minitime1Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:54 am

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I'm with the dancing turd.
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GHTE
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PostSubject: Re: New Adventure V85?   New Adventure V85? Icon_minitime1Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:12 pm

The bike is a show piece and not a real off road bike. As such it would be a nice "non cafe" cruiser alternative to the poxy V7's.
I agree the lack of a linkage is disapointing-ever watch a KTM going down deep rutted hills-they kick left and right, that is why only their Enduro-EXC's miss out on the linkage. Their road, race and moto cross bikes all have linkages.
I would love to have a ride on one and see how it actually rode. The Stelvio comes to mind-looks too big and bulky, is very heavy and to some not too attractive. But; it is a brilliant bike to ride and can do some limited off road work-should have kept progressing that bike.
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Il Griso
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PostSubject: Re: New Adventure V85?   New Adventure V85? Icon_minitime1Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:23 am

If you look to the cylinder head of the concept bike, a single spark plug is positionated lateral on the bottom end of the cylinder head.
Thus, the head is a 2-Valve arrangement, otherwise the spark would be in a central position.

Euro 5a emission stage will come into force by Jan 1st 2020.
The V85 concept bike will be sold earlyest in 2018 and as it looks like, MG intends to roll out a complete line-up for various platforms obver the next years.

Euro 5a will not be acchieveable with 2-V technics and for sure not 80hp at this emission standard.

Thus, it leads to the conclusion, that at Milano only the acceptance for the adventure vehicle will be tested, and the final engine concept will have a 4-V camdrive (AND most propably partially watercooled). There is no way around!!
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: New Adventure V85?   New Adventure V85? Icon_minitime1Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:58 am

V9 already has the casting for a central plug. My guess is this engine will be a 4V pushrod design and a stop-gap.

V9 head.

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kiwi dave
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PostSubject: Re: New Adventure V85?   New Adventure V85? Icon_minitime1Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:50 pm

Pete Roper wrote:
V9 already has the casting for a central plug. My guess is this engine will be a 4V pushrod design and a stop-gap.


Looks identical to the V7-III head, when I did the tappets last week.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: New Adventure V85?   New Adventure V85? Icon_minitime1Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:04 pm

Same top end.
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Il Griso
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PostSubject: Re: New Adventure V85?   New Adventure V85? Icon_minitime1Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:42 am

Pete,
I think you are right with 4V and pushrods. I was not aware, that the head of the V9 is from a casting standpoint already forseen for a central plug.
Can you please just explain me what you mean by stop-gap. I don't now this wording.

Thank's, Ralf
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sidrat
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PostSubject: Re: New Adventure V85?   New Adventure V85? Icon_minitime1Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:10 am

Ralf, Temporary solution while a new engine is being developed
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dennis the menace
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PostSubject: Re: New Adventure V85?   New Adventure V85? Icon_minitime1Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:11 pm

1903 racer not a guzzi he had the right idea though[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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WCB
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PostSubject: Re: New Adventure V85?   New Adventure V85? Icon_minitime1Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:41 pm

Grisonut wrote:
Single damper bolted to the side of the bike as opposed to the center?
I'm sure it's OK for asphalt but I question the efficiency in off road situation...I'm talking thrashing this thing around hard, not going slow in 2nd gear on gravel roads. lol

The Ducati Desert Sled, the Kawasaki Versys and other use the same set up.
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WCB
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PostSubject: Re: New Adventure V85?   New Adventure V85? Icon_minitime1Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:53 pm

I like it a lot. I'm hoping the motor is going to be a completely new unit (and keep in mind, I actually like the V7II mill) with the 80hp they are claiming. We'll see I guess. I hope it is. Guzzi could do with some good publicity buzz.

With a power to weight ratio that will be near the Stelvio with a lot less weight (claimed 440) it should be a lot of fun. The Stelvio is actually quite excellent off road (i've ridden mine on stuff that would be difficult to walk on), so I'm hoping the new V85 will have similar capabilities.

I would like to see a 21" front wheel and a bit more ground clearance and rear shock travel (similar to the Ducati Desert Sled). I'm hoping on the final iteration, these things will come to fruition.
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ghezzi
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PostSubject: Re: New Adventure V85?   New Adventure V85? Icon_minitime1Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:05 pm

The only possible way to get a little more travel is to raise the front of the engine so the crankshaft is tilted back. I have reached the limits of swingarm/cardan angles on Bella, although my engine is tilted forward due to a reduction in wheel size and fork length.

This video will explain why .................



They could use CV joints (constant velocity), but these have increasing friction/loads as the angle increases.
Car suspension is nearer 100mm travel (or less). A short motorcycle shaft with axle travel of 160mm+ ????
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Grisonut
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PostSubject: Re: New Adventure V85?   New Adventure V85? Icon_minitime1Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:18 pm

WCB wrote:
Grisonut wrote:
Single damper bolted to the side of the bike as opposed to the center?
I'm sure it's OK for asphalt but I question the efficiency in off road situation...I'm talking thrashing this thing around hard, not going slow in 2nd gear on gravel roads. lol

The Ducati Desert Sled, the Kawasaki Versys and other use the same set up.

I see...well seems odd to me.
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WCB
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PostSubject: Re: New Adventure V85?   New Adventure V85? Icon_minitime1Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:01 pm

Pete Roper wrote:
It will all hinge on what is under those valve covers on the production model. There are a lot of things I'm not happy about from an engineering point of view which I'll cover later but the big issue is what is under the rocker covers. If it's just a Lario remake it will sink without a trace.

According to Guzzi....

[quote]A new Moto Guzzi engine is launched on the V85. The construction design is proprietary and excludes all current Moto Guzzi production: in fact, it is a two-cylinder 90° transverse air-cooled 850cc which, thanks to its complete redesign, has 80 HP of maximum power.

Does nobody know anything about this thing? Have we no spies on the inside??? Laughing

It'll be interesting to see if they're blowing smoke up our skirts, or we're in for something new like the 1200 8v was.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: New Adventure V85?   New Adventure V85? Icon_minitime1Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:28 pm

80 HP from a smallblock? There has to 4 valves per cylinder. And forced induction. Laughing


Suspect
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: New Adventure V85?   New Adventure V85? Icon_minitime1Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:03 pm

It can't be over bored, it can't be stroked. If they use a Hi-Cam design it might be possible at the crank and that would allow them to beef the rods up a bit.

Thing is the way to increase torque is better volumetric and thermal efficiency. Power is torque x revs and rod strength and mean effective piston speed are going to be limiting factors there. Then because of the side draft head design you're going to end up with similar problems as the current 8V has.

Look, I'm really hoping it's a good 'un and they pull a rabbit out of their hat but I'm not willing to speculate until there is some hard and reliable data available on what exactly the new motor involves.

Pete
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