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jfortenbery
Carlotto
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PostSubject: Warning Message and Red Triangle   Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:43 am

I just completed rollerization on my 2012 Norge. I also replaced the sump (cracked by PO and JB Welded) and a leaking oil pressure sensor.

When I fired it up, it sounded great. About 1 second of valve train clatter and then SMOOTH. BUT, the red triangle is on and the message "Warning" appears on the dash. Convinced I have oil pressure and oil, I took it for a test drive. Two actually. It runs and idles great.

The instructions said upon completing the rollerization, I should use the "P.A.D.S. diagnostic tool to insure engine configuration is recognized correctly". What in the world does that mean? I can't imagine what is different about the "engine configuration" because I now have roller tappets.

Any experience with this?

Thanks!
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Warning Message and Red Triangle   Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:52 am

The cams are different, but that shouldn't produce the red triangle of death.

You got GuzziDiag?
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Oz1200Guzzi
Don Abbondio
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PostSubject: Re: Warning Message and Red Triangle   Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:16 am

Sump Spacer and sump gaskets changed? (assuming you have the spacer, I think you do, but I am often wrong!)

Classic case of the top spacer gasket not in good shape. Possibly a bit of the gasket is missing letting oil pressure escape prematurely.

Alternatively, it could be the electrical connection to the oil pressure switch.

Does the warning come on before you start (after the instrument sweep), or once you are running, especially when hot?
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jfortenbery
Carlotto
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PostSubject: Re: Warning Message and Red Triangle   Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:30 pm

I don't have GuzziDiag.
I replaced both the sump spacer gasket (above spacer) and sump gasket.
I replaced the OP sending unit and had to rig up a good electrical connection as it was a different style connector. I'm fairly confident it's OK, as it's just one wire. Even I can't screw that up!
Beetle - you said camshafts are different. I knew they were new as they came pre-installed with the "A" kit. Do you know what changed about the cams? Cam grind as in Lift, duration, overlap? Should I expect any performance changes?

FUNNY THING ... I just went out and started it. NO RED TRIANGLE and NO WARNING message! Everything looks and sounds normal.

I noticed when I went into the diagnostic menu to clear codes, that the battery voltage was 11.6. I've had it on trickle charger for about 6 hours. Battery voltage up to 12.2. Would low battery voltage cause the "Warning" signal?

AND, I'm still curious what need to be re-set about the engine configuration through P.A.D.S. AND, what is P.A.D.S?
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Warning Message and Red Triangle   Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:52 pm

PADS is the extraordinarily crappy factory tool. All they are asking you to do is upload the last factory map, which while better is still fairly 'Hi-Hum' and re-set the self Learning parameters, (Trims.).

The roller cams by necessity have a different profile but they were ground in such a way as to be within trimming distance of the original flat tappet cams. Mark or I can send you a copy of the GRS8V-03 map if you want but you'll need Guzzidiag 'Writer' to upload it. If you've balanced the TB's you need to recalibrate the TPS too which will require the Guzzidiag program.

Pete
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Warning Message and Red Triangle   Fri Nov 17, 2017 2:57 pm

Wordy response deleted.


...what Pete said.



Pete, it's a 2-Lambda Norge. Let's not send him a 1-lambda GRiSO map.


Very Happy
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Warning Message and Red Triangle   Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:58 pm

Hmm, yeah. That probably wouldn't help.....Very Happy
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jfortenbery
Carlotto
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PostSubject: Re: Warning Message and Red Triangle   Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:48 pm

Thanks, guys for the info and the offer to send an improved map. Dealer was willing to install the best they had (with PADS), but if you've got something better, I'm eager to get cracking with it!

I'll go find Beetle's instructions on downloading Guzzidiag and look forward to receiving the newest, greatest mapping from one of you guys.

I'm leaving town this am for the weekend, but when I get back on Monday, this will be priority #1. Want to get in a few more trips before the snow start flying...
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smddanny
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PostSubject: Re: Warning Message and Red Triangle   Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:29 am

The low oil pressure on start up just raised the computer flag.. you probably put a new oil filter on and it was dry :-(.. cleared the flag after a couple of good restarts with normal pressure.


How do yo update the maps in a GRiSO???? I would like to check the one in my new livingroom decoration as I just removed the termignoni exhaust and re-installed stock.. want to check to ensure the unlikely event of the PO updating to suit the exhaust.
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paulbrice
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PostSubject: Re: Warning Message and Red Triangle   Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:04 am

Lots of threads on this in forum. You need Guzzidiag with lonelec cables, IAW5xreader & IAW5xwriter and laptop. Software at [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

AFAIK the base maps & the 'philosophy' for Termignoni pipe was designed to work out the box as a replacement for standard without 'tickling' the OEM map. Obviously huge value to switch from OEM to Mark's versions for general running and he has 'tickled' them for lots of options so you can choose map to match your setup.

Personally I prefer the standard (exhaust) map with the Termignoni but that's just my preference (I've tried both). Either way I find the Termignoni exhaust a bit harsher more perceived vibration but prefer the look & sound so a worthwhile trade
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smddanny
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PostSubject: Re: Warning Message and Red Triangle   Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:06 am

Thanks Paul Brice again.. I need to study that situation and check my maps. Have laptop.. need cables and that download then..
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jfortenbery
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PostSubject: Re: Warning Message and Red Triangle   Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:07 am

Preparing to use GuzziDiag and order cables.

How do I determine if I have 5 AM or 15AM ECU?
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motor-timothy
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PostSubject: Re: Warning Message and Red Triangle   Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:42 am

jfortenbery wrote:
Preparing to use GuzziDiag and order cables.

How do I determine if I have 5 AM or 15AM ECU?

As far as I know all types and years of GRiSO's have the 5AM ECU. The 15 series ECU are used in California's, V11's and V7's amongst others.


Edit: Didn't see it was about a Norge, those have the 5AM ECU as well, just like the GRiSO.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Warning Message and Red Triangle   Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:47 am

Every CARC bike uses the 5AM.
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jfortenbery
Carlotto
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PostSubject: Re: Warning Message and Red Triangle   Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:47 am

My Lonelec cables were delayed, so I went to the dealer for the re-set. They re-set the trims, but system said I already had the most current map (according to Guzzi).

I've since gotten Guzzidiag and the reader and writers downloaded. Received the Lonelec cabes today. Is there any map available that will improve performance and feel with stock exhaust, or is the most current Guzzi map as good as it gets?

There's another "issue" I'm experiencing that's bugging me. The throttle seems slow in dropping rpm's between shifts. Bike shifts smoothly, but if I'm shifting gears at say 4,000 rpm, it barely drops to 3,000 before i'm accelerating in new gear. IF i hold clutch in for a full second or two, it finally drops to 1,100 rpm, but it really takes its sweet time getting there. It's not a mechanical hangup or bind. I've checked the linkage from grip to the TB's. Is there a "soft decel" in the programming?
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Warning Message and Red Triangle   Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:45 am

No, it sounds like it isn't tuned properly. High idle is usually related to both air bleeds being open or a sticky stepper, often due to overfilling with oil.

Pete
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jfortenbery
Carlotto
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PostSubject: Re: Warning Message and Red Triangle   Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:04 am

Thanks, Pete. That makes sense. The bike was significantly overfilled when I purchased it and I saw LOTS of oil sitting in the airbox as I was doing the rollerization. I'll check for air leaks w/ starting fluid or similar.

How do I go about "un-sticky"ing the steppers?
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Warning Message and Red Triangle   Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:46 am

Liqui-Moly Valve & Carb cleaner.
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Oz1200Guzzi
Don Abbondio
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PostSubject: Re: Warning Message and Red Triangle   Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:46 am

Easy, just takes time. Remove throttle bodies as a set, clean liberally inside and out with carburetor cleaner. WARNING - DO NOT ADJUST ANYTHING AS THIS WILL LEAVE YOU WORSE OFF!

Cleaning needs to take time, and may need multiple cleans depending on how much oil and crud is in there. repeat until the set moves like a well oiled machine, without the oil, of course. Use no hammers!
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EricS
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PostSubject: Re: Warning Message and Red Triangle   Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:02 pm

Oz1200Guzzi wrote:
Sump Spacer and sump gaskets changed? (assuming you have the spacer, I think you do, but I am often wrong!) Classic case of the top spacer gasket not in good shape. Possibly a bit of the gasket is missing letting oil pressure escape prematurely.

So I have seen several mentions of the sump spacer and gaskets failing. My search on a 'how to' didn't find anything. Can someone explain how these bits are checked/replaced or point me to a thread? Will be doing an oil change soon and wonder if this is something to check 'while I'm in there'.
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Oz1200Guzzi
Don Abbondio
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PostSubject: Re: Warning Message and Red Triangle   Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:01 pm

Very easy, if you have an older bike, remove the sump, then remove the sump spacer, held on by a further 4 screws, replace spacer gasket, then replace the sump gasket. Should take all of around 30 minutes all up. Price of gaskets is generally around $25 for both of these, plus any freight, if applicable

The newer ones no longer have the spacer (I believe) so not an issue, and doesn't require replacement. Pete can you confirm this?

Generally if there is a problem in the spacer gasket, you will see a section missing between one or both sets of 2 screws, where the oil is transferred between mating surfaces. make sure all is clean and dry before re-assembling. I don't believe there is a need for any gasket goo.

If you are doing an oil change, that would be the best time to do it...
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Warning Message and Red Triangle   Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:23 pm

Very easy in real terms although it can be fiddly as you're working *Upside-down*.

IT helps if you have a lift as it saves on the concrete grovelling.

First drain the oil completely with the bike upright. Then disconnect the condensate return pipe to the back of the sump.

Now remove the 14 bolts around the periphery of the sump followed by the four down in the oil filter 'Pit'. You can feel for these by feeling with your finger around the edge of the casting that surrounds the filter, there are recesses and at the bottom of these there are the bolts. Once these are removed the sump will come off.

Now it is out of the way you can look and see there are two bolts that hold the lubrication pick up on. Remove them and pull the pick-up out. From memory the coolant pick up is retained by the two clamping bolts that hold the front of the spacer on. Remove them and the two at the rear, (They're all different lengths, don't mix them up.) and now the spacer should separate from the block. The part of the gasket that will most likely of blown out will be at the front pick-up and delivery galleries on the spacer and block. There is a new *Thicker* gasket to replace the earlier thin and rather frangible one.

Clean off all traces of the old gasket and lie the new spacer gasket onto the spacer making sure that all the holes align with the galleries in the spacer. Poke one of the bolts at the front and back clamping points through the spacer and gasket and offer spacer and gasket up to the block. Wind in the bolts but not tight and then insert the other two clamp bolts and several of the external bolts just to align the outside of the gasket with its holes before tightening the clamp bolts and pick-up bolts after re-inserting the pick ups.

Remove the aligning bolts from the outside of the spacer and offer up the sump with a new gasket. Once again use at least two of the bolts in the oil filter *Pit* to position the gasket correctly and bolt the sump by these loosely to the spacer/block. Then insert all the other bolts around the perimeter of the sump and the last two in the *pit*. Once they are all started tighten them down in a crosshatch pattern to whatever the torque is in the book, I don't use a torque wrench on 6mm threads as they are notoriously strip prone so I do it by feel.

At some point in all this you should of removed the old filter, doesn't matter when but I'd better mention it or someone will shriek at me, now is the time to install the new one, pre filled of course!

Reconnect the condensate return hose, tighten the drain plug, fill with oil, turn on ignition, press button, be horrified by clattering of chains in the couple of seconds while it builds oil pressure and fills up the tensioner reservoirs then breathe a sigh of relief as it all quietens down, (I use that term subjectively. It's an 8V so it'll still make a noise like shagging combine harvesters!) put on gloves and helmet, go for a strop! Check for leaks. Drink beer!
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EricS
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PostSubject: Re: Warning Message and Red Triangle   Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:07 am

Great info! Thanks Gents. Pete - interesting you mention chain clatter. That's starting to happen now on startup for second or less, leading me to think it's time for new gaskets. To confirm, I'll need #15 and #17 gaskets, plus #7 from the 2nd list? (This the Norge parts image from Harper's - they don't provide a GRiSO parts list.)

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Phang
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PostSubject: Re: Warning Message and Red Triangle   Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:33 am

Pete, are these the four bolts that secure the spacer to the crankcase?

parts diagram shows #21 (M6x60) and #28 (M6x40) respectively

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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Warning Message and Red Triangle   Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:52 am

No need for part#7, you don't need to remove or disturb that cover.

Yup, good pic Phang. Thank you.

Pete
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