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 1400 motor's up and running.

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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: 1400 motor's up and running.   Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:05 pm

Hasn't gone bang yet! It turned out to be considerably more involved than I thought it would be. Costly too. When its confirmed its all OK and Mark has had a chance to map it up he can report on whether it was actually worth it!

Pete

PS. I sent Mark a short Vid of it running. if you ask nicely he might put it up on facetube or whatever and link it up here.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: 1400 motor's up and running.   Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:12 pm

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PostSubject: Re: 1400 motor's up and running.   Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:07 pm

It lives! Hooray!
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nblades
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PostSubject: Re: 1400 motor's up and running.   Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:45 pm

Cool. Torque monster!
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pauldaytona
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PostSubject: Re: 1400 motor's up and running.   Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:45 am

Mark, do you have a dyno of the old setting to do a direct compare when you think it's running fine?
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: 1400 motor's up and running.   Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:01 am

Unfortunately, no.
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Pisano
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PostSubject: Re: 1400 motor's up and running.   Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:11 am

Wow... can't wait for the ride report!

I know little about the 1400 engine configuration but I believe it is mounted with rubber struts or shock mounts in the OEM configuration.

Is the engine hard mounted in your bike or do you make use of those engine mounts?

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PostSubject: Re: 1400 motor's up and running.   Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:58 am

Wonderful news Pete, I want to know what you had done to the head if anything. Glad you got time to get it done.
Ready to retire? How about FL, they need a wrench down there!!
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: 1400 motor's up and running.   Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:47 am

Pisano wrote:
Wow...  can't wait for the ride report!

I know little about the 1400 engine configuration but I believe it is mounted with rubber struts or shock mounts in the OEM configuration.  

Is the engine hard mounted in your bike or do you make use of those engine mounts?


Nope, motor is mounted exactly the same way as a conventional 1200, in fact it uses a 1200 crankcase. Interestingly the 1400 twin spark motor used in the Calis vibrates like a cheap sex aid at idle which is the reason the motor is rubber mounted. The second plug only fires at lower crank speeds and I was told by a factory rep that the second plug was to deal with ensuring a more complete burn in the larger bore. I thought the logic was a bit suspect but believed him but I now think the second plug is used primarily to make the wretched engine vibrate at low engine speeds so it jumps around in its rubber mounts like a Harley motor to appeal to cretins. Certainly the single spark 1400 vibrates no more at idle than the 1200 and like the Cali motors is silky smooth once the revs rise and this is before the map has been touched.

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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: 1400 motor's up and running.   Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:27 pm

pauldaytona wrote:
Mark, do you have a dyno of the old setting to do a direct compare when you think it's running fine?

Once it's all sorted we could take his and mine to the Dyno in Canberra. They're pretty much identical apart from the fact I still have a pretzel in my exhaust while his has the arrow centre pipe.

'Butt Dyno' will do for starters. Very Happy
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waterbottle
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PostSubject: Re: 1400 motor's up and running.   Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:22 pm

Pete Roper wrote:
pauldaytona wrote:
Mark, do you have a dyno of the old setting to do a direct compare when you think it's running fine?

Once it's all sorted we could take his and mine to the Dyno in Canberra. They're pretty much identical apart from the fact I still have a pretzel in my exhaust while his has the arrow centre pipe.

'Butt Dyno' will do for starters. Very Happy
Good effort Pete and Michael cheers Thumbs Up
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kiwi dave
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PostSubject: Re: 1400 motor's up and running.   Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:18 pm

Pete Roper wrote:
I now think the second plug is used primarily to make the wretched engine vibrate at low engine speeds so it jumps around in its rubber mounts like a Harley motor to appeal to cretins. Certainly the single spark 1400 vibrates no more at idle than the 1200 and like the Cali motors is silky smooth once the revs rise and this is before the map has been touched.

I've thought this every since I bought my first 1400 Custom, and have been meaning to disconnect the second spark lead just to see whether it smooths out the idle.  Just haven't got around to it.

I also suspected the second spark is utilized for traction control, but with later bikes appearing with traction control and no second spark plug (viz. V7-III), perhaps this is not the case.
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Grisonut
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PostSubject: Re: 1400 motor's up and running.   Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:33 pm

Can't wait to see how it will fare with Mark's touch.
I love projects like these...
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sideshowbob
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PostSubject: Re: 1400 motor's up and running.   Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:41 pm

Very nice!!!
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: 1400 motor's up and running.   Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:23 pm

I took it out for a bit of a canter this morning. It's, unsurprisingly, a tad lean as its still running Mark's special 1200 map built for his bike alone but it had enough low end/low/medium throttle torque to surprise me as I nearly lost the clutch side handgrip when I gave it a tweak. New rear tyre stepped out on me too when I was a bit careless with the throttle.

Methinks it has potential.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: 1400 motor's up and running.   Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:50 pm

Don't crash it! That's my job.

Hmm. I may throw some arse numbers at it.


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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: 1400 motor's up and running.   Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:00 pm

I would, even if it's just a small blanket increase in fuel and a degree more advance a la you know who. It didn't audibly detonate but it feels a bit harsh and lean and above 5.5-5.7 ish rpm and say 50% throttle you can tell it's going lean-weak or at least that's what my arse dyno tells me. Better to start out a tad rich at first rather than risking some form of ugly damage or heat fatigueing the rings.

It's very smooth and quiet at idle, the factory put a lot of effort into getting the balance factor right on the 1400. No idea why it's so quiet? Maybe a particularly docile unicorn inside it!
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: 1400 motor's up and running.   Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:05 pm

Added 3% across the board on both sides. I think I'll leave the advance alone, as it has a lot more advance than the 'standard' Mistral Hi-Pipe map.

You want I should send it to you to try?
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: 1400 motor's up and running.   Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:19 pm

Nah, we'll need to re-fit the mirrors and wing mounts when you arrive, you can upload it while we're doing that.

I'd also like to point out to everyone that although I supplied the parts, some knowledge and input this project has been and remains mainly Michael's. After the crank was in the block I essentially turned the build over to him. Everything from there on in has been down to him.

It's the first time he's been involved in a project like this to my knowledge and I believe he's enjoyed it's! As my protégé I'm hoping to hand the business over to him in a couple of years and retire. My skeleton has just had enough of working on the tools alas! As it is though I feel I will be leaving my customers in very good hands. He really is a very good mechanic and sharp as a tack!

Pete

PS. What mirrors are you using? Bar ends or the gynaecologist's speculums?
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PostSubject: Re: 1400 motor's up and running.   Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:38 pm

Pete Roper wrote:

vibrates like a cheap sex aid at idle

Shocked Laughing
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: 1400 motor's up and running.   Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:57 pm

Pete Roper wrote:

What mirrors are you using? Bar ends or the gynaecologist's speculums?


Bar ends. Expanding adapters.

I've got a new set of bars that I've drilled and tapped for screw-in bar adapters, but that would entail swapping the bars and transferring the left grip.


.
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nblades
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PostSubject: Re: 1400 motor's up and running.   Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:07 pm

Did you guys transplant a Cali 1400, or did you take a 1200 engine and install new jugs and pistons? If so, then which heads do you use? Pete's favorite American Moto Guzzi guy sells a big bore kit for the 1200. Did you guys do something like that?
Today I put the first km's on my newly rollerised bike, and everything sounds and feels good. No leaks. I had to shovel ice and snow off of the neighbors sidewalk to gain access to the open road, but at least I can winterize her now knowing she's ready for the spring. I topped up the tank with some premium 94 and an ounce of stabilizer, and put her in the corner of the garage for the next few months.

Congratulations on the new 1400. Now back to my drink... Cheers.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: 1400 motor's up and running.   Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:20 pm

nblades wrote:
Did you guys transplant a Cali 1400, or did you take a 1200 engine and install new jugs and pistons? If so, then which heads do you use?  Pete's favorite American Moto Guzzi guy sells a big bore kit for the 1200.  Did you guys do something like that?
Today I put the first km's on my newly rollerised bike, and everything sounds and feels good. No leaks.  I had to shovel ice and snow off of the neighbors sidewalk to gain access to the open road, but at least I can winterize her now knowing she's ready for the spring. I topped up the tank with some premium 94 and an ounce of stabilizer, and put her in the corner of the garage for the next few months.

Congratulations on the new 1400.  Now back to my drink... Cheers.

Look, with respect, I'm not willing to disclose exactly what we've done because in the past I've done that for other things and the designs have just been stolen and plagiarised by assholes. Fuck that, a LOT of work and money has gone into this, I'm not giving it away.

As for my favourite bloke over there? Has he actually got one up and running or is this like so many other things just something that is 'Going to happen' at some point in the future?

I will say though that it is NOT a simple bolt on job and it uses a 1200 motor as its basis, not a 1400.

Pete
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NorthernProducer
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PostSubject: Re: 1400 motor's up and running.   Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:42 pm

That's one fine team effort guys! Can't wait for your next update...
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melonman
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PostSubject: Re: 1400 motor's up and running.   Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:03 am

that thing will pull your arms out the sockets.
top effort all concerned. Thumbs Up
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