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harrytief
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PostSubject: suspension upgrades   Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:22 pm

Is there a consensus/recomendation on fork and rear shock upgrades for a 165lb rider on a 2007 GRiSO 1100? At the front, I hope to change out the spring and fork oil and even revale if necessary. At the rear, budget requires that I reuse the oem Sachs. I want to eliminate the harshness over the battle scarred streets here but retain control and tautness. Any thoughts as to what spring rates front and back, fork oil weight, or even valve specs will get me close. Thoughts on preload and damping clicks? I commute on my bike and never track or street race. Thanks in advance for any help.
I've waded through all the wonderful articles already here and am looking for a take away.
Thanks in advance
Harry
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waterbottle
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PostSubject: Re: suspension upgrades   Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:03 pm

Hi Harry, looks like this post was missed. To get your bike set up for YOU, first read through this article on the Go Star Racing site. I know your not Racing , but all of the principles still apply.
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You will need a heavier spring on the shock , or you will end up having the compression setting wound in to far to prevent bottoming out, trying to compensate for a soft spring this way just makes for a harsh ride. Spring rates ? It will depend on what your Sag measurements are.  I'm pretty sure the standard spring is a 95 Nm one, I went to a 110 Nm spring which helped a lot,
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harrytief
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PostSubject: Re: suspension upgrades   Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:25 pm

Hey Ron
Thank you for your reply! I do hope others chime in as well as I can use all the help I get...and am grateful for it.
I will read your attachment. My winter project will be to ready the GRiSO as my go to bike for next season. The suspension will be its biggest issue and I hope to maximise what is there first before looking after market. I want to benefit from the experience of others who already found the best OEM can deliver and have decided if that is good enough or not. I like GOOD SUSPENSION!
Harry
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harrytief
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PostSubject: Re: suspension upgrades   Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:29 pm

Ron
How did you set up your front fork?
Harry
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ghezzi
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PostSubject: Re: suspension upgrades   Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:47 pm

Harry, tell me what you've previously owned/ridden, with regards to suspension mods and your experience ..... and then your expectations for GRiSO.

If you don't have a budget, then you won't be able to budge it, and it will always handle like budgee shit. geek
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harrytief
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PostSubject: Re: suspension upgrades   Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:04 pm

Hi Ghezzi
I have presently in the garage two guzzi cx100's, a 1970 guzzi ambassador 750, a 1972 guzzi eldorado 850, a 2007 bmw r1200r and the 2007 GRiSO. The list of guzzi's gone is longer still as well as other marques. The cx100's are heavily modded by myself. Ohlins rear suspension on each and GSXR USD front ends. Various combinations of cams, carbs and exhausts have turn them into mini GRiSO hotrods. The ambo sports a modified dual disc front end that I adapted from period guzzibits as well as ohlins twin shocks at the rear. The eldo is in full rebuild with all mechanical work done by myself less the machine work which I farm out. I know my way around an older guzzi just a bit but the GRiSO is new to me. I enjoy suspension and brakes on a bike but like to see what I can get out of the OEM design brief before modding. I don't know if the OEM sachs and front showa will dissapoint and I should just skip to the aftermarket. I am hoping to hear the groups thoughts and then decide.
thank you for your response.
Harry
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harrytief
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PostSubject: Re: suspension upgrades   Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:09 pm

PS;
You
Do
Sound like a poet
And
You
Do
Know it
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ghezzi
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PostSubject: Re: suspension upgrades   Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:10 pm

OK, you're a fiddler/tinkerer and having a couple of well sorted bikes, you know GRiSO has room for improvement.

Showa 43mm upside down forks are easily adaptable to be as good as any Ohlin fork, same as your GSX-R kit. So valving and springs are easy. Many here favour the complete Matris internal fork kits.

For the rear end.
Firstly, anything Ron has to say is worthwhile heeding, but he may have missed your fly weight (165lb), most of us here are 200 to 220lb +. I would hazard a guess the stock spring is pretty close for your weight, especially if you take more weight out of the bike (exhaust, battery etc).

My experience is with a Bellagio, stock Sachs was crap, susp tech said it suffered from hydraulic lock.
I installed a GRiSO shock, not much better with its damping adjustment. Tech said Sachs needles have short taper and blunt ends, meaning no finer adjustments.
So after a total of $700 investment I sold it for $100 as it was still sub-standard, after owning a Ducati Hypermotard.

So Harry, its all horses for courses. Depends on your previous experiences, and your current expectations of what is acceptable.

People's eyes glaze over when I start on this ............bear bare with me ............ the next level that many here try is a Stelvio shock.
It has a hydraulic pre-load adjuster and rebound damping only, a slightly heavier spring but most importantly, it is approx 10mm longer and allows a little more travel. Plus it raises the rear closer to 30mm and therefore reduces rake and trail for a quicker/lighter turn in.

Personally, I believe you will not be satisfied with anything less than top shelf. Myself and a few others have invested in Matris R shocks with hi & lo speed damping etc. Some have experienced a dilemma with the spring rate set for a Kenworth (?), but any high end brand of shock should do the trick. Height adjustable to 330mm eye-to-eye is ACE!

I'm 200lb + running a 10kg spring (GRiSO is 9.6kg), my bike is 200 kg wet and she rides pretty firm in the rear.
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ghezzi
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PostSubject: Re: suspension upgrades   Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:21 pm

Hey, we wanna see photos of ALL your bikes.
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avgpetro
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PostSubject: Re: suspension upgrades   Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:43 am

Me too been about the same weight (~75kg/165lb) think the stock spring is ok for me. At least the sag is ok...

The main problem (for me) is that it bottoms when meeting bumps or holes having a passenger, lot worse when also having baggage. I should change preload when loading the bike more than myshelf, only that I find it too hard to do it as often as needed...

So, I'm about to send the rear shock for service, mostly to get a new bump stop (the one it had dissindegrated), will replace a couple of bend bolts, and I'll installing to it this gizmo I bought:

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The consept is to be able to easily adjust preload when loaded... My consern is that installing it will comprress the spring at least 4mm more than having set the sag set for my weight... If it gets too hard, I'll either remove it, or gain some weight.
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ghezzi
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PostSubject: Re: suspension upgrades   Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:03 am

You guys need to play around with the stock damping settings as well,
although the compression goes from too soft to too hard in the breadth of a gnat's whisker.
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sidrat
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PostSubject: Re: suspension upgrades   Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:17 am

Hello Harry

The stock spring for most of us is simply too light. 9.5kg/mm is standard and i have gone up to 11kg/mm. To achieve something like the correct sag, both with and sans pilot you have to wind the preload up so much that i ended up with none! You are a little (25lb) lighter than me, but i would still start with some measurements.

The second issue is that to compensate MG wound up the compression damping so that the shock will just go solid if you hit a bump. I have now chnaged rear shocks, and now have a stelvio shock, but i will look at the last settings i had on the original shock and forks to share with you.

You can make the pig with lipstick dance with a little adjustment and in my case some cash on a longer shock (it made a hige difference)
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waterbottle
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PostSubject: Re: suspension upgrades   Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:53 pm

Sorry Harry, I've fitted Matris Cartridge kits to both Grisos, a significant improvement. the springs have a 10 engraved on one end if i remember correctly, and they have click adjusters
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harrytief
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PostSubject: Re: suspension upgrades   Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:24 am

I am going to try an ohlins ttx36 to replace the rear sachs. For my weight at about 175 lbs with all gear I thought a 10.5 ohlins spring should work but I need confirmation. I also want to be certain about the spring diameter and length and I think the 1093 or 1095 will get me to 320mm eye to eye. The shackle length is a problem as there are two it seems and I don't know which part number to order. I don't want to increase ride height beyond my "ahem" leg length. This particular shock was in a GSXR750 so will there valve issues? Advice/thoughts?
Harry
PS
This shock currently has a 9.0 spring on it. Am I correct in assuming it is too light for my weight/sedate riding style on bad roads?
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sidrat
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PostSubject: Re: suspension upgrades   Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:39 am

Harry
The stock shock is 320mm. A stelvio shock is another 10mm longer, but adds exactly 1 inch, 25mm to the height of the seat, with 20mm static sag.
The stelvio spring is 11kg/mm and is fine for me, the best thing i can say is that i dont notice it!, i would like to try a 10.5, which i think one up would be perfect. I like the extra travel of the Stelvio, as the travel from the orignal Sachs is too sort, especally once you have dialled in some sag.

Interesting to know how much travel is in the ttx36.

You have to be carfull with the spring diameter make sure you know what it is and will fit as its pretty tight
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ghezzi
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PostSubject: Re: suspension upgrades   Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:06 pm

Harry,
1. Check the stroke length (shock shaft travel) of the of the Ohlin and compare to Sachs.
This is very important as the rocker ratio of the GRiSO could be vastly different to the bike that shock was designed for.

2. Compare outer dimensions of spring/shock etc for clearance.

3. Be very accurate with bottom clevis, mounting to rocker, and clearance from dogbones.
Ron had to machine washers/spacers to fit his Ohlin from a Tuono.

4. Try it with the 9kg spring first. (do you have stock exhaust?) Most bikes come with springs to suit an 80kg rider, I guestimate that spring will give you a plush ride on your daily commute, dampening is the major fault with the sachs. Buy a heavier spring later (your budget) if you need to firm it up for faster riding.

5. Stick with the 320 length for ducks, and drop your triple clamp to the 6th line.

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Nobleswood
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PostSubject: Re: suspension upgrades   Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:16 pm

Harry,

The Clevis bracket I got from Ohlins USA was part no.01060-10. Cost $80-. Which as Life keeps getting in the way of me mounting this to my GRiSO, I can’t confirm fits. But I have been able to measure & it looks like it will.

As Ghezzi says you’ll need to do some checking to confirm the shock will work with the rocker ratios you have.

Give Ohlins USA, a call, some of the OEM shocks, as a safety feature don’t allow you to just unwind the bottom bracket. They can confirm what you’ll find.

Cheers. Keep posting & add some pictures cheers
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PostSubject: Re: suspension upgrades   Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:13 pm

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harrytief
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PostSubject: Re: suspension upgrades   Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:18 pm

Hey guys
Thanks for the continuing support!!! A hallmark of any guzzi community.
The Ohlins I am looking at is intended for a 2007/8 gsxr1000 and is model# SU788. Its stroke is 63mm and length 315mm +/-2mm.
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The clevis should lenthen it to approx 320mm. A 1093/10.5 ohlins spring is now fitted along with the clevis. the shock is new. I've attached a pic with the original spring and bootom mount.
I'll see the shock tomorrow. What to look for?
Thoughts?
Harry
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Nobleswood
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PostSubject: Re: suspension upgrades   Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:53 pm

Harry,
What did you pay for that unused shock ?
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harrytief
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PostSubject: Re: suspension upgrades   Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:50 pm

I pulled the rear of the GRiSO to see if the swing arm bearings and shock linkage were greased...they were NOT! I will also install the Ohlins shock I have . I've added pics of both the Ohlins compared to the OEM sacs as well as some pics of the shop stand and steps in the dismantle. Thanks to all here for their help and Kiwi Roy for his template of the stand.
Does anyone feel the bottom shackle should be wound in further? It is at a 320mm total shock length now.
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harrytief
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PostSubject: Re: suspension upgrades   Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:57 pm

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harrytief
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PostSubject: Re: suspension upgrades   Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:59 pm

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harrytief
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PostSubject: Re: suspension upgrades   Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:00 pm

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harrytief
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PostSubject: Re: suspension upgrades   Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:04 pm

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