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Oz1200Guzzi
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PostSubject: "New" Handling   Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:14 pm

Tyres, no this is not a tyre thread!

Recently I fitted some Pilot Road 4 GTs, to Black Betty. Here's the thing: She tips in better and holds the line much better than before. The problem is now I am riding faster, and corners that I used to take at 100 kph, I am comfortable at 20 over that. lean angles are getting that severe that my boot touches down occasionally - when in the zone, it's a little unsettling.

Mind you nothing has changed except some minor map improvements - maybe beetle-mapping has other benefits.

I am not the world's best rider, I used to race, but if I came second last over someone I had a good tussle with, I had achieved. I used to race against Wayne Gardner, however he was at the other end of the field, trying to beat (my then) brother in law. No I was never that good, but I did win a race once!

Now as I get older, I am really enjoying my riding more, especially when I can ride like I have never ridden before. I need to be careful as I might be over the top if busted. Would these tyres make that much of a difference? Is the profile of the PR4 and PR4GT different?

Bill you have been using these, what are your thoughts?

Grazie!
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: "New" Handling   Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:45 pm

I've had a PR4 GT on the front for two tyres. I honestly couldn't tell the difference in handling from the standard PR4. They seem to last longer, though.

I am a shite-er rider than you though, I expect.

They tell me that the GT has a more substantial sidewall, for heavier bikes. I believe big block Guzzi's fall into that category. Mayhap the stronger sidewall creates better handling through less mush?

scratch
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paulbrice
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PostSubject: Re: "New" Handling   Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:06 pm

I run PR4 GTs and I agree they are superb grip & strong centre line wear performance but with two provisos that are due to the fact they are so good:

1. Very sensitive to road lines if the tyre pressures move even slightly below target, sometimes alarmingly hard to control the torque steer type effect & especially going down between traffic which is where the two lines of tarmac join but have a seam (all not helped by wide bars)
2. Being so good leads you to push the limit and then something else catches you. Just this week (crap weather here) I've had back end big step out on diesel on roundabout - not complaining but the tyres lull you into pushing harder as you say; and then front end stepped out big time on salt/grit ...'big time' is just a metaphor for saying 'shiiiiiiit' as the real step out was likely nominal but just not expected

So I think the only problem they give is that great grip is the new mental normal & you rapidly build that into your riding until something pulls you back to reality. Same with brakes as in late 70s my Suzuki 185 brakes were so bad I regularly had to go up pavements and elsewhere if there was a sniff of wet....today it's tyre grip & not the brakes that are the limit in wet
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Oz1200Guzzi
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PostSubject: Re: "New" Handling   Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:27 pm

So the extra sidewall may inspire "confidence" and stability. Thanks for your considered considerations.
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wyno
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PostSubject: Re: "New" Handling   Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:26 pm

I've just ordered a set of PR4 s from Peter Stevens here in Geelong. Should I ask them to get me a set of PR4 GT instead?
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PostSubject: Re: "New" Handling   Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:36 pm

Dunno if I have the normal Pilot Road 4 or GT on my GRiSO, but I can second that it handles extremely well and provides a lot of mental comfort when leaning. One track day has not helped to hold back in flowing corners or well sized roundabouts. Also had this experience described by Paul when riding along the 'tarmac seam'. Which air pressure do you run on those? I use 36psi front and 38psi rear riding one up.
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: "New" Handling   Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:00 pm

Michael, I think the GT's are good choice for the GRiSO.
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wyno
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PostSubject: Re: "New" Handling   Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:33 pm

Thanks Mark.
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Oz1200Guzzi
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PostSubject: Re: "New" Handling   Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:41 pm

Go the GTs - same price
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sidrat
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PostSubject: Re: "New" Handling   Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:25 am

Tony

The short answer is yes.

If the better steering is percieved, you will push it harder, simple.

I have not used the tyres. I have been using sticky Pirelli Corsa's and have recently moved away from them as they simply don't suit the bike. Grip like shit to a blanket, but the feel of the sports touring Pirells Angels because of the rounded profile and that they don't deform with a heavy bike, makes it handle better. I am going just as fast on the Angels as i was on the grippier Corsa's and feel more confident, even though i know i have sligthly less grip.

Dont worry too much about the boots going down, the pegs can go down on the GRiSO with sports touring tyres and she is very cool with that.

Dont think it too much just enjoy
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Bill Hagan
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PostSubject: Re: "New" Handling   Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:10 am

Drove home from Atlanta yesterday, so was unable to waste  Wink spend time on the forum.   Very Happy Anyway, missed this one 'til now.

When I put on new shoes on both GRiSO and Norge in summer 2015, I went with MPR4's on GRiSO, and the GT versions on the Norge.

My thinking -- such as I am capable of in such things  Rolling Eyes -- was that when I ride the Norge, it is often LD fully loaded or with Kathi as pillion.  

All three of us, i.e., the Guzzis and, sigh, ich, are heavyweights.  Kathi is but a slip of a thing, but when we are two-up, she does bring along  enough "Venetian things" that we are near the Norge's GVWR.

I have to say that I have been very happy -- make that VERY happy -- with the performance of both "regular" and "fat boy" versions of the MPR4's.

I won't say I don't care about mileage.  If I didn't, suppose I'd go with "Powers" or other brand versions of those near-track tires.  My main concern, however, given my propensity to ride above my competence level, is "performance" in the safety sense, especially when Princess Kathi is aboard.  She trusts me in a breathtakingly endearing (and unwise) way, so I put her in the best ATGATT and the safest tires I can find.

Anyway, have been near astounded at the mileage I am getting ... virtually double my usual "cords at 4K miles."

And, WRT to "real" performance of the sort Tony mentions, yes, yes, and yes.  

Now, that said, I have to say that I have not noticed that the "regulars" on the GRiSO suffer from any noticeable sidewall flex.  Bear in mind that I have felt that -- as in a "fall off the GRiSO and slide down the road sort of way" back in Sept. '13.  Cannot remember what those tires were, tho (as evidence that I am not a company man who will only drive Chevys) they were some version of Michelins.  I could literally feel the rear end "give" when I pushed it (on purpose or in unintentional scream-in-my-helmet events).

That has not been the case with the GRiSO, or, at least, I have not noticed it.

But, when time comes to re-shoe, as is the case now with the Norge and will likely be in midsummer for the GRiSO, I will do GT's on both.

If anyone reading this thread is moved to do the same, I recommend that you tip the tire guy a bit more if you choose GT's as they seem to require way more cursing to mount. Twisted Evil

Must go ... my Perfect Pillion queen just announced it's time to go outside and put up Christmas lights, etc.  santa rendeer   Aside from the cold (30F), the ladder work may make ATGATT smart, too.  affraid

So glad this wasn't a tiresome tire thread. Wink

Bill
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Oz1200Guzzi
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PostSubject: Re: "New" Handling   Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:03 pm

Thanks Bill. Buon Natale!
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GUZ21
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PostSubject: Re: "New" Handling   Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:59 pm

I thought this wasn't a tyre thread, you said.

Now Christmas tree lights, Bill...., There's a subject for a thread hi-jack. A well known lady who rides Guzzis here who told me last week that she takes down her Christmas tree every year, leaving the gee-gaws on. She puts it in her garage, throws a sheet over it, and its ready for next year. An example to all of us.
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stdunkel
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PostSubject: Re: "New" Handling   Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:29 pm

Such a brilliant idea to have the tree ready without spending all that time on decoration. Done that! But turned out to have some drawbacks Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: "New" Handling   Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:32 pm

Sorry, don't do the xmas trees Very Happy

Angels on my 1100 suit it fine.

The GRiSO 8V has rosso corsa front, rosso III rear for the best combination I've used and I'll stick with.

Overkill unless you corner hard, but if you do, this combination was better than supercorsas.

Best compromise were MPR3 and more than adequate unless you push limits. Not tried the Road 4's but I guess they'll be the same. Good enough handling with great mileage.
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Bill Hagan
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PostSubject: Re: "New" Handling   Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:03 am

Diablo Loco wrote:


****
Best compromise were MPR3 and more than adequate unless you push limits.  Not tried the Road 4's but I guess they'll be the same.  Good enough handling with great mileage.  

Bah humbug on all you Buon Natale naysayers.  santa rendeer Razz

That said, my sweet supervisor is making noises about getting started on Day 2.  I am still recovering from Day 1, but it seems that what I thought an elegant and understated light display is unsat to Management, who insists on more lavish lighting on the house and various decorating on our "yard art" vintage manure spreader and mowing machine.  All this to make grandbabies giggle and Kathi smile.  The latter is worth it.   queen  Very Happy


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On the bright side, my Dear Leader does take care of the labor class ... tho she didn't see me add the shot of grappa.  Goes better with espresso, but it will do with hot cocoa if needed.   cheers


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Now back to the untire thread.   Wink

I thought that there were some significant differences between MPR 3's and 4's, particularly with the ratio of the compound mix on sidewall ... but darn if I can find anything on that ... at least before I have to saddle up for Santa duty.  Best my hurried search got was this ... and it's in DownUnderSpeak, so you Aussie and Kiwi folks won;t need Google Translator to read it  jocolor : [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  

Must go ...  Wink

Best,

Bill
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Oz1200Guzzi
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PostSubject: Re: "New" Handling   Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:38 pm

Wow, Bill, the research lawyer pays off huh? Nice article. I might have to leave feedback on the GTs - a step above the PR4 - especially if I can ride better for having them. Will wonders never cease?
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PostSubject: Re: "New" Handling   Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:34 pm

Nice article. So the consensus here is the PR4 GT's are better for the GRiSO than the 'normal' PR4's for standard street use?
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Oz1200Guzzi
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PostSubject: Re: "New" Handling   Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:16 pm

Yup! The PR4 GTs are more suitable for the porkiness of the CARC bikes, than the PR4. Hell mine weighs in at a svelte 230 kg before liquids. And when I get on it, the weight goes up considerable. When I go away on a trip, even more so.

I Hear through the rumour mill that PR5s are just around the corner. See PR5 for details. Possibly even better than the PR4 GT - awesome!
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Street
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PostSubject: Re: "New" Handling   Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:37 pm

Here's how we do the tree. Printed on fabric, purchased by the yard at IKEA, hangs from the bookshelf in seconds, takes up no floor space, drops no needles and never needs watering! Decorating done!

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PostSubject: Re: "New" Handling   Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:21 pm

Note: New PR'5 here in OZ from Jan1.
My mate put the GT 4's on his 1200 sports as he was often pillioning his Bride and found it a better ride and more durable. I tried them on my multi and went back to the plain 4's and also keep them on my 1100 GRiSO and monster. I prefer the slightly softer/more flexible carcass for feel when pushing through the hills and twisties here in the Vic. High Country. I do agree the GT's are longer wearing and for softer geographical locations I would probably run the GT's.
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wyno
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PostSubject: Re: "New" Handling   Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:25 pm

I changed my order to PR4 GTs so I'll be able to tell you what I think of them on Monday.
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PostSubject: Re: "New" Handling   Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:50 am

Street wrote:
Here's how we do the tree. Printed on fabric, purchased by the yard at IKEA, hangs from the bookshelf in seconds, takes up no floor space, drops no needles and never needs watering! Decorating done!

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That got a 'yea !' From my Boss
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Bill Hagan
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PostSubject: Re: "New" Handling   Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:01 am



^^^^^^

Yes, impressive. santa rendeer cheers

Bill
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Diablo Loco
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PostSubject: Re: "New" Handling   Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:21 am

Bill Hagan wrote:
Diablo Loco wrote:


****
Best compromise were MPR3 and more than adequate unless you push limits.  Not tried the Road 4's but I guess they'll be the same.  Good enough handling with great mileage.  

Bah humbug on all you Buon Natale naysayers.  santa rendeer Razz

[...]
Now back to the untire thread.   Wink

I thought that there were some significant differences between MPR 3's and 4's, particularly with the ratio of the compound mix on sidewall ... but darn if I can find anything on that ... at least before I have to saddle up for Santa duty.  Best my hurried search got was this ... and it's in DownUnderSpeak, so you Aussie and Kiwi folks won;t need Google Translator to read it  jocolor : [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  

Must go ...  Wink

Best,

Bill

Love Christmas, too lazy for the tree but I see @Street has the answer!

Very interested in the PR4 GT reviews if I can ride east next year.

The PR3's were impressive with the 4000km straight across Australia not even flatspotting them.

I changed them after 10,000 with plenty of tread because more sport riding.
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