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motor-timothy
Biondino
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motor-timothy

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PostSubject: Occasional single loud tick while stopped at traffic lights   Occasional single loud tick while stopped at traffic lights Icon_minitime1Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:43 am

So I've had this for a while now, and was hoping the new exhaust system + new spark plugs I installed last week would fix this, but to my dismay it hasn't. The issue is this:

Seemingly at random there is a loud knock or better yet a loud 'tick' from, well somewhere. It sounds to me like a normal detonation but louder with a slightly more ‘metallic’ sound and it sends a noticeable shake/vibration through the bike (especially noticable where my knees touch the cylinders & the handlebars). It's difficult to replicate as it happens very infrequently.
So far I've only noticed it while standing still in front of a traffic light, while slowing down just before a stop, or right after being stopped while accelerating, and it has happened both in gear and in neutral. It's possible its there when riding as well but I haven't noticed it (perhaps due to the wind noise etc.) It only seems to happen when the bike is warm.

I initially thought it was pre-detonation pre-ignition, but its only a single loud tick (loud not as in an explosion loud, but noticeably louder than the normal engine sound), not a rattle, and it only happens infrequently.

Thinking I'll try an oil change next. Any idea's what this could be? Could it be transmission related rather than engine? Could my GRiSO just hate traffic lights as much as me?


Last edited by motor-timothy on Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:57 am; edited 3 times in total
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Occasional single loud tick while stopped at traffic lights   Occasional single loud tick while stopped at traffic lights Icon_minitime1Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:02 am

There is no such thing as 'Pre-detonation'. There is pre-ignition and there is detonation. They are two separate phenomena. And what is 'Spark plug knock' when it's at home?

If you mean that occasionally the motor seems to hesitate it may be spitting back through the throttle bodies. This can be caused by the butterflies being clogged and dirty and not closing completely or simply poor tuning. Has your bike had a TB balance since it was crashed?

Pete
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paulbrice
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PostSubject: Re: Occasional single loud tick while stopped at traffic lights   Occasional single loud tick while stopped at traffic lights Icon_minitime1Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:03 pm

My 2009 did exactly the same - discussed before in a couple of other threads where people had a 'stumble' on idle that felt like a metallic thump (they also had unrollerised bikes)......I think it is something to do with the flat tappets failing because it went away as soon as it was rollerised.....Oil change, tuning, cleaning throttle bodies etc didn't fix it; just rollerising...no real idea why but lots of theories that I'll never prove or justify like it's a metal to metal partial clash & damage/surface effect...
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motor-timothy
Biondino
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PostSubject: Re: Occasional single loud tick while stopped at traffic lights   Occasional single loud tick while stopped at traffic lights Icon_minitime1Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:49 pm

Right sorry, my terminology is not up to snuff, I meant detonation Laughing

And while this started after my tip over, so it could be related, it seems to originate from the right cylinder while my bike fell on the left. I did rebalance the trottle bodies, set valve clearance etc. following the excellent guides on this site.

I wish I could record the sound. Its basically like the normal engine sound going -tap-tap-tap-tap- except occasionally (randomly?) one (and just one) of the -taps- is louder than the others and more metallic sounding. A bit as if a small hammer strikes the metal casing. When this happens there is a noticable ‘shake’ and the bike sways sideways a little more than normally. Other than this the bike runs like a dream.
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ghezzi
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PostSubject: Re: Occasional single loud tick while stopped at traffic lights   Occasional single loud tick while stopped at traffic lights Icon_minitime1Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:20 pm

Sounds like a "lean burn misfire", only happens at idle, almost stalls. Have you messed with idle mixture or reset CO2's?
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Occasional single loud tick while stopped at traffic lights   Occasional single loud tick while stopped at traffic lights Icon_minitime1Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:47 pm

I note that you still haven't rollerised so as Paul says that may be related. As the tappets spin there may be a wide point or it may be that one or more of the cam lobes is so damaged the the valve timing has all gone to shit producing who knows what effects!

Why are you wasting money on stuff like crash bars while your engine is destroying itself? Fix the basics, then add the farkles!

Pete
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motor-timothy
Biondino
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PostSubject: Re: Occasional single loud tick while stopped at traffic lights   Occasional single loud tick while stopped at traffic lights Icon_minitime1Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:08 pm

Pete Roper wrote:
I note that you still haven't rollerised so as Paul says that may be related. As the tappets spin there may be a wide point or it may be that one or more of the cam lobes is so damaged the the valve timing has all gone to shit producing who knows what effects!

Why are you wasting money on stuff like crash bars while your engine is destroying itself? Fix the basics, then add the farkles!

Pete

Don't ask, I asked the dealer here to get the kit for me under warranty as compensation for all the trouble I've had since they touched my bike. I submitted all the information and photo's early October.  In December I got a message from the dealer that apparently the claim was denied because there was no service history of the bike in MG's digital system(?), so I had to make photographs of the service booklet and send those to the dealer, and they had to place a new claim request. Almost 3 months now and as of yet MG hasn't accepted the new claim yet...

Also I haven't bought any crashbars?? scratch
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Occasional single loud tick while stopped at traffic lights   Occasional single loud tick while stopped at traffic lights Icon_minitime1Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:09 pm

Sorry, I must be mixing you up with someone else.

Look, you can arse about and miss the whole of the upcoming summer waiting for your dealer, the importer and Piaggio to pull their collective heads out of their arses I'd suggest just buy a kit and do it. It's what I do nowadays. Yours is a 2009 so it almost certainly needs a 'C' kit but it's cheaper by far to buy a 'B' kit and add the other bits you need., probably cost you £750-770 but then it t's done and you don't run the risk of damaging anything else. You can then press on with the claim and if it is approved sell the kit you recieve to someone else!
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Occasional single loud tick while stopped at traffic lights   Occasional single loud tick while stopped at traffic lights Icon_minitime1Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:15 pm

Timothy, I was told by one of your fellow countrymen that the flat tappet failure was bullshit, and that no bikes in the Netherlands had failed. Is it possible that your dealer is a non-believer too?



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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Occasional single loud tick while stopped at traffic lights   Occasional single loud tick while stopped at traffic lights Icon_minitime1Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:39 pm

Sorry, I'm slow this morning. I'm obviously mixing you up with someone else because I thought you were a pom, even though your nationality is sitting there staring me in the face!

Anyway, a 'B' kit is 776 Euro and the other bits will probably cost you another 100-120 Euro. Thats from TLM just up the road from you.

Pete

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motor-timothy
Biondino
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PostSubject: Re: Occasional single loud tick while stopped at traffic lights   Occasional single loud tick while stopped at traffic lights Icon_minitime1Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:41 pm

beetle wrote:
Timothy, I was told by one of your fellow countrymen that the flat tappet failure was bullshit, and that no bikes in the Netherlands had failed. Is it possible that your dealer is a non-believer too?

No, I can accuse them of a great many things which I will not spill out here, but not that. Their main mechanic told me he actually went to some sort of MG training/instruction day/week in I believe he said South America (seems a rather strange location to train European mechanics, but I guess they have to spend our cash on something) where the tappet issue was specifically addressed.

Anyway if I haven't been given the greenlight for the kit within the next 6 weeks or so I'll bring the bike to TLM come spring and let them have a go at acquiring the kit under warranty and doing the conversion.
If for some strange reason the kit won't be supplied under warranty, the whole thing will be put on the back-burner or I may even sell the bike as I can't afford to buy that expensive kit + the costs for installing it which is something I don't have the technical knowhow for to do myself.
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LBC Tenni
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PostSubject: Re: Occasional single loud tick while stopped at traffic lights   Occasional single loud tick while stopped at traffic lights Icon_minitime1Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:02 pm

You’re what, an hour from TLM? Go see what they can do for you. The dealer you are waiting on for months clearly doesn’t care about you. When I was looking for a dealer in the LA area to rollerise mine, I heard everything from “you pay full cost” to “what cam problem? Never heard of it.” I ended up finding a dealer who got both parts and labor covered by Piaggio without me even asking. I fully expected to pay the labor, but they surprised me, and turned it around in less than a month. They were over an hour from home, but worth the ride. Some dealers are great, others are useless or worse. I’m a long way from Europe, but what I’ve gathered here and from other forums is that TLM is a good shop. I can’t imagine they’d treat you the way you are being treated now. You've given them too much time already. Cut your losses and give TLM a chance. Wait until spring and they’ll be a lot busier than they are now. If the weather is bad, hire someone to haul it.
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anguscameron1966
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PostSubject: Re: Occasional single loud tick while stopped at traffic lights   Occasional single loud tick while stopped at traffic lights Icon_minitime1Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:53 pm

motor-timothy wrote:
Pete Roper wrote:
I note that you still haven't rollerised so as Paul says that may be related. As the tappets spin there may be a wide point or it may be that one or more of the cam lobes is so damaged the the valve timing has all gone to shit producing who knows what effects!

Why are you wasting money on stuff like crash bars while your engine is destroying itself? Fix the basics, then add the farkles!

Pete

Don't ask, I asked the dealer here to get the kit for me under warranty as compensation for all the trouble I've had since they touched my bike. I submitted all the information and photo's early October.  In December I got a message from the dealer that apparently the claim was denied because there was no service history of the bike in MG's digital system(?), so I had to make photographs of the service booklet and send those to the dealer, and they had to place a new claim request. Almost 3 months now and as of yet MG hasn't accepted the new claim yet...

Also I haven't bought any crashbars?? scratch

Timothy,

I can't say my dealer was not pushing for the roller kit on my behalf, but as the process was so protracted I contacted MG customer services. Within days I had a call from MG Italy informing me that the Kit was on it's way to the dealer.  It might just be worth making the call and pushing it on if possible. It could just have been coincidence of course but for the cost of a call?

Angus.
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Grisonut
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PostSubject: Re: Occasional single loud tick while stopped at traffic lights   Occasional single loud tick while stopped at traffic lights Icon_minitime1Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:11 am

Yeah it's a dealer issue.
Don't know what it is about dealers...
Seems that every douche bag enterprise in the motorcycle world decides to be a Guzzi dealer. Out of all the brands of bike available on the planet, they choose our brand of course. Not the Japies, other Europeans brands, Harley etc... but noooo, they must all consult one another and decide to go for Moto Guzzi and botch it all up!!  
And our bikes are the easiest to work on/service just about, pretty simple. It's not like they have to do recall on a F22 Raptor for fuck sake!

I was kind of excited when a well established dealer 15 minutes away from me, took the Piaggio franchise 2 years ago.
So since I had the hots for the new Rosso one and my 13 was kinda messed up, I went ahead and made a trade.
Well, they are so useless that I WOULD NOT let them even wash my bike!!! lol
Turns out, it's a new ownership since they took to Guzzi and they turned a well established enterprise into a cluster fuck gathering.
I did buy the Rosso from them but it will never see that place again.
Not a biggy since I do all the maintenance myself and if I ever need to use the warranty, I'll take the bike to Miami instead.

As for your issue...use all the cards that you have... See different dealers, make some phone calls etc...
Worse case scenario, you could also look into trading the bike for a recent one like a 13 and up.
Don't let pecker heads ruining your GRiSO experience...
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motor-timothy
Biondino
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motor-timothy

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PostSubject: Re: Occasional single loud tick while stopped at traffic lights   Occasional single loud tick while stopped at traffic lights Icon_minitime1Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:42 am

Update, just got this photo mailed to me by the dealer. They told me they had to harass ask a Piaggio manager present at the dutch motorcycle exhibition in Utrecht back in februari to get it:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]


Yay! cheers cheers cheers
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sidrat
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PostSubject: Re: Occasional single loud tick while stopped at traffic lights   Occasional single loud tick while stopped at traffic lights Icon_minitime1Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:07 am

That looks like good news!, glad you are going to keep it now!
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