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not_scooter_Scura!
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PostSubject: Supercharging - but not really   Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:56 pm

Hey Pete and co

I figure there is no room for supercharger due to the alternator in the V?

It's a pipe dream...but that doesn't mean I wouldn't do it with low boost and someone who knows what they're doing.


Last edited by not_scooter_Scura! on Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Supercharging - but not really   Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:40 pm

No dream of mine. I think forcibly aspirating spark ignited engines is one of the shittest ideas in the history of IC engines. Diesels? Brilliant! Bring it on! Petroleum? I'd rather stick red hot pins in my squirter!

Pete
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not_scooter_Scura!
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PostSubject: Re: Supercharging - but not really   Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:09 pm

Oookay
Won't misquote you on an old post re the 'short stroke' 850 GRiSO coz that may have been due to lack of performance not suggesting you thought it a good idea.

I'll shut up and delete the post....unless someone has done this Very Happy
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Supercharging - but not really   Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:05 am

I'd do it. Yeah!



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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Supercharging - but not really   Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:24 am

I can't think of any time in the last twenty five years where I have actually advocated forced aspiration of a Guzzi motor? I may of said that if I was looking for a candidate 'X' or 'Y' model might be a better, or at least *an* option but forced aspiration is such a shitty balancing act unless you have a LOT of money to spend on testing and effectively start with a clean slate you're on a hiding to nothing.

To start off, explain to me why forced aspiration is a good idea. Why do you think it will give better performance?

Pete
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Supercharging - but not really   Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:38 am

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not_scooter_Scura!
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PostSubject: Re: Supercharging - but not really   Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:23 am

I would never be able to explain truthfully that it is a good idea.
I have ridden a forced Thruxton R and that was insane but not saying it didn't bend the first 3 engines either coz I don't know.

I'm a motorcyclist which my government keeps trying to convince me is a bad idea all the time.

As I said didn't wish to misquote you from another forum.(yes a long time ago)
No harm done right? No one bloody died.
Leave it.
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nblades
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PostSubject: Re: Supercharging - but not really   Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:23 am

Turbos make sense for aircraft, because the density of the air changes with altitude, and you don't want a loss in power the higher you climb. But thats aided by the function of a density controller. The added complexity has its down sides. On a motorcycle I'd say no, unless the manufacturer spent the money on R and D. But if someone has lots of money, and time, go for it!
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Supercharging - but not really   Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:25 am

not_scooter_Scura! wrote:
I would never be able to explain truthfully that it is a good idea.
I have ridden a forced Thruxton R and that was insane but not saying it didn't bend the first 3 engines either coz I don't know.

I'm a motorcyclist which my government keeps trying to convince me is a bad idea all the time.

As I said didn't wish to misquote you from another forum.(yes a long time ago)
No harm done right? No one bloody died.
Leave it.

Sorry, I wasn't meaning to jump down your throat. I was just surprised that you thought I'd be excited by a forcibly aspirated Guzzi. It's been tried in the past and rarely works well.

The thing is that forced aspiration is seen as a way of getting 'Free' performance whereas in reality it is anything but free and has enormous handicaps in both complexity and reliability. As mentioned above there are some advantages in terms of consistency once full boost is achieved but an awful lot of it involves robbing Peter to pay Paul.

I apologise if I seemed to come on strong. It wasn't my intention.

Pete
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not_scooter_Scura!
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PostSubject: Re: Supercharging - but not really   Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:31 pm

All good Pete. It was always a very big question mark for a shit idea.


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GuzziSteve
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PostSubject: Re: Supercharging - but not really   Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:20 pm

If you read about the guy in Germany he bent some cranks before he got it right.
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Steak
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PostSubject: Re: Supercharging - but not really   Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:05 pm

Just connect a barrel chested porn star to the exhaust. You'll get some street crew and might even bump up the HP a tick or two.

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2012 MOTO GUZZI GRiSO 1200SE

2013 MOTO GUZZI STELVIO 1200NTX - Orange Blossom Special
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sideshowbob
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PostSubject: Re: Supercharging - but not really   Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:51 pm

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I have a supercharger. 20Lbs of boost and not quite enough fuel!
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Oz1200Guzzi
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PostSubject: Re: Supercharging - but not really   Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:55 pm

Dead, wrapped in plastic!

Seriously we should take PRoper's name from the heading, or change it to "Mr Roper's Nightmare". Or possibly, "No Compression Here"
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PostSubject: Re: Supercharging - but not really   Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:32 pm

Supportive of removing Roper from the thread name. (Done).
Regret mentioning it in title.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: Supercharging - but not really   Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:04 am

There was really no need for that! I'm not a precious little snowflake but I will robustly defend my views. I was hoping to promote a for/against argument about forced induction, that's all.

Pete
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not_scooter_Scura!
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PostSubject: Re: Supercharging - but not really   Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:11 am

And now you can...still...

It was misleading as a title even with the (?)
I know you're not precious or delicate Pete. We've drunk together when you repaired my Sport 1100 in another age.

But that supercharged Thruxton...I tell you (yes maybe it exploded by now)
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ghezzi
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PostSubject: Re: Supercharging - but not really   Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:27 pm

I'm not so stupid as to get into a debate with Roper San and incur the wrath of his mighty pen (or finger), but in the interest of the discussion ....................

My neighbour Colin is building a 2JZ (Toyota) powered cf Pontiac drag car. Pro-charger, 40psi, 10,500rpm, mechanical fuel injection (class rules), methanol etc. Hoping for 1150rwhp, sacrificial test engine almost ready for the dyno. Dyno is mounted otherside of our dividing wall, so I know when he is busy.

You ain't gonna get that sort of power from 2500cc naturally aspirated, on a stock crankshaft.

But relative to our favourite inefficient air pump, doesn't forcing more air in, decrease its inefficiency? I do concede the word EFFICIENT does imply, getting more power with LESS fuel/air.
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Oz1200Guzzi
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PostSubject: Re: Supercharging - but not really   Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:48 pm

There's the whole crux of the matter Wayne - Drag racing demands maximum HP and reliability for a short period only. Most of these guys do a partial rebuild between runs anyway (speaking of top fuel here) and are prepared, nay mandated, to do a full rebuild between meetings as bits are on the bleeding edge, all the time - just doing one of their burnouts causes severe strain on everything, including the driver (don't blow it up, I'll need to do a run within 30 seconds)!

However, in the real world (yes you, come back to earth), unless a drive-train is design from the ground up to be forcefully aspirated, there will be quite a few compromises, not to mention reliability, needing to be made just to have it running whenever it's needed.

Personally, I like my engines (Bike and Car) to be available, at all times, regardless of the prevailing conditions, to simply start and run, when I need it! I must admit I am thinking of turbo-charged engine (probably diesel) in my next car. However the caveat there is that it comes that way from the manufacturer, who has a long history of turbos and longevity in their pedigree. I will probably also opt for the auto gearbox, as my personal synchronisation is suffering due to a number of factors.

To fuel the debate, I have driven a supercharged, CommonDoor (V6, 3.8L) in the past, and found it quite exhilarating to drive on the open road - pretty much useless around town, in my opinion - but the rush when giving it the berries! I wasn't paying for the vehicle nor was I paying for the fuel. It didn't last long, as the guru of a General Manager decided to issue everyone with petrol cards (gas for youse in NA) that prohibited PULP. Shame all the vehicles in the fleet ran on that - vehicles were soon traded in for less performance oriented vehicles. Party pooper! Not long after, the board cancelled his petrol card, his vehicle and his job - karma is real...
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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: Supercharging - but not really   Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:57 pm

Superchargers are awesome. If I hadn't blown all the map money on hookers and cocaine, I would definitely spend it on more hookers and cocaine instead of blowing my GRiSO. Or putting a blower on GRiSO. Or something. Something needs to be blown.


Now these guys turbocharged a V7. Why you ask? I don't know. I don't think anyone knows. A scrambler yet. More "why" you ask. See previous statement.


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Oz1200Guzzi
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PostSubject: Re: Supercharging - but not really   Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:06 pm

Tee Hee
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PostSubject: Re: Supercharging - but not really   Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:12 pm

Gees Beetle, shits gonna hit the fan now!
Just put me ear muffs and dark glasses on.
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not_scooter_Scura!
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PostSubject: Re: Supercharging - but not really   Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:47 pm

It's Ok
We love GRiSO
We are Bravi not scared white guys.

Let's talk,ride, break things, fix, ride,talk some more
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Oz1200Guzzi
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PostSubject: Re: Supercharging - but not really   Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:56 pm

forgetting something? DRINKS!
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not_scooter_Scura!
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PostSubject: Re: Supercharging - but not really   Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:59 pm

Yes!
Each comma is a drink Cool
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