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 when is dealer likely to see tappet damage?

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grisopaul
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grisopaul

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PostSubject: when is dealer likely to see tappet damage?   when is dealer likely to see tappet damage? Icon_minitime1Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:11 pm

My 2012 GRiSO is going into dealer to check the tappets for possible Guzzi warranty replacement. It only has 4700 miles on it, what is the likelihood that they will look bad enough for Guzzi to replace them. If this is a silly question - flame away guys.
thanks,
Paul
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: when is dealer likely to see tappet damage?   when is dealer likely to see tappet damage? Icon_minitime1Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:23 pm

Its really hard to tell. I've seen them trashed at 8,000Km and I've also seen very little damage at 20,000.

It all depends on how its ridden and to a lesser extent where. My guess is that there will be at least the beginnings of damage. it only takes an hour to inspect both sides on a GRiSO really so even if they can't justify replacing them, (And even slight signs of missing DLC is enough.) you can inspect in another 10,000 and they will definitely be showing some wear.

Make SURE you see pictures of the tappets. On many occasions I've heard of people being told that trashed tappets are 'Acceptable wear'. There is no such thing!

Pete
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smddanny
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PostSubject: Re: when is dealer likely to see tappet damage?   when is dealer likely to see tappet damage? Icon_minitime1Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:47 am

Pete.. i picked up a 2200 mile 09 last fall.. its just waiting for winter to end here. I have a roller kit sitting on the shelf but I was just going to run the thing and wait and listen. There are no DLCs inside to circulate .. so no foul right?

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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: when is dealer likely to see tappet damage?   when is dealer likely to see tappet damage? Icon_minitime1Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:07 pm

Why wait for it to start destroying itself? You have the kit. Do it now.

Pete
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smddanny
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PostSubject: Re: when is dealer likely to see tappet damage?   when is dealer likely to see tappet damage? Icon_minitime1Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:11 pm

But they are just solid lifters...my UK GRiSO went over 12K miles on the original. Sounds real good to me at all speeds now.

What could go so wrong? The rockers loosen up and I'll hear it.. this one isn't going to far from home anyway. :-)


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beetle
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PostSubject: Re: when is dealer likely to see tappet damage?   when is dealer likely to see tappet damage? Icon_minitime1Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:56 pm

Therein lies the trap. If you wait til they get noisy, or the clearances start opening up, it'll be too late. You're risking your big ends.

These pics are both failures, but with the first one, where just the DLC is coming off, there will be NO external symptoms. By the time they get to look like the second pic, when they will be noisy and clearances will be all over the place, it's too late. Just do it now.


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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: when is dealer likely to see tappet damage?   when is dealer likely to see tappet damage? Icon_minitime1Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:12 pm

Like a Star @ heaven
smddanny wrote:
But they are just solid lifters...my UK GRiSO went over 12K miles on the original.   Sounds real good to me at all speeds now.

What could go so wrong?  The rockers loosen up and I'll hear it.. this one isn't going to far from home anyway. :-)



It’s not the fact the gaps are too large that is the problem per-se, although that will cause massive over fuelling and associated wear, it’s the fact that as the material is biffed off the tappets into the oil it will then flow around the motor. Only the lubrication circuit is properly filtered and when the oil is cold the filter may go into bypass allowing crud into sensitive bits like bearings but anyway the oil pumps, the very pumping heart of the lubrication system, are unfiltered and damage to them will compromise the longevity of the engine seriously.

Yes it sucks that Piaggio screwed us all over but it makes no sense to further increase the risk by neglecting the simple and obvious fix!

Pete
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smddanny
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PostSubject: Re: when is dealer likely to see tappet damage?   when is dealer likely to see tappet damage? Icon_minitime1Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:40 pm

I get it.. the pump is at risk if the filter picks it all up and protects the big ends. I thought the DLC coatings were the killers.. you are saying that the pulverized cast iron dust is nasty too.

Its just that I have other projects right now and other bikes to ride.. I look forward to doing this job .. just not right now.

BTW I got the DLC lifters removed under warranty.. (free parts, not labor of course) the mechanic in the UK did that 09 without rem the heads. He made a tool to compress the springs and get the keepers out.. compressed air in chamber... sounds nifty..I know you are not a fan though Pete. I used to replace valve seals in 1600 cc H2O cooled VW motors in the 80s.
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Pete Roper
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PostSubject: Re: when is dealer likely to see tappet damage?   when is dealer likely to see tappet damage? Icon_minitime1Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:03 pm

The whole reason bearing shells or surfaces are made of a soft material is to allow the embedding of particulate matter to maintain the integrity of the bearing. Even so if you get enough damage the oil won’t be able to wedge and failure occurs. ‘Rule of thumb’ for bearing clearance is one thou for every inch of journal diameter. Those bits of mashed lifter, be they DLC or parent metal, are in most cases going to exceed the bearing clearance especially at the wedge point. Damage is inevitable.

As for removing the springs etc. without removing the heads? I’m sure it’s doable, I just can’t see the point???

Pete
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grisopaul
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PostSubject: Re: when is dealer likely to see tappet damage?   when is dealer likely to see tappet damage? Icon_minitime1Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:21 pm

update for my 2012 with 4700 miles. the dealer found enough wear and Guzzi sent a roller kit to them and they are going to replace. I feel so warm and happy that I'm going to be rollerized. :-)
thanks for your input.
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sidrat
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PostSubject: Re: when is dealer likely to see tappet damage?   when is dealer likely to see tappet damage? Icon_minitime1Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:44 pm

Thats goos to know, mine were toast at 2250 miles and i needed a new crank and cases!
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